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Shortening trees list with (setcdr (nthcdr 2 trees) nil)



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Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
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5















I am starting to learn elisp and working through this tutorial https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/eintr/kill_002dnew-function.html
and I do not understand this basic example:



 (setq trees '(maple oak pine birch))
⇒ (maple oak pine birch)

(setcdr (nthcdr 2 trees) nil)
⇒ nil

trees
⇒ (maple oak pine) ;I was expecting: (pine)


How does (setcdr (nthcdr 2 trees) nil) remove the last element from the trees list?



Here is the same example manually expanded from the inside out:



 (setq trees '(maple oak pine birch))
⇒ (maple oak pine birch)

(nthcdr 2 trees)
⇒ (pine birch)

(setq trees '(pine birch))
⇒ (pine birch)

(setcdr trees nil)
trees
⇒ (pine)


Where did I go wrong expanding the example?










share|improve this question





























    5















    I am starting to learn elisp and working through this tutorial https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/eintr/kill_002dnew-function.html
    and I do not understand this basic example:



     (setq trees '(maple oak pine birch))
    ⇒ (maple oak pine birch)

    (setcdr (nthcdr 2 trees) nil)
    ⇒ nil

    trees
    ⇒ (maple oak pine) ;I was expecting: (pine)


    How does (setcdr (nthcdr 2 trees) nil) remove the last element from the trees list?



    Here is the same example manually expanded from the inside out:



     (setq trees '(maple oak pine birch))
    ⇒ (maple oak pine birch)

    (nthcdr 2 trees)
    ⇒ (pine birch)

    (setq trees '(pine birch))
    ⇒ (pine birch)

    (setcdr trees nil)
    trees
    ⇒ (pine)


    Where did I go wrong expanding the example?










    share|improve this question



























      5












      5








      5








      I am starting to learn elisp and working through this tutorial https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/eintr/kill_002dnew-function.html
      and I do not understand this basic example:



       (setq trees '(maple oak pine birch))
      ⇒ (maple oak pine birch)

      (setcdr (nthcdr 2 trees) nil)
      ⇒ nil

      trees
      ⇒ (maple oak pine) ;I was expecting: (pine)


      How does (setcdr (nthcdr 2 trees) nil) remove the last element from the trees list?



      Here is the same example manually expanded from the inside out:



       (setq trees '(maple oak pine birch))
      ⇒ (maple oak pine birch)

      (nthcdr 2 trees)
      ⇒ (pine birch)

      (setq trees '(pine birch))
      ⇒ (pine birch)

      (setcdr trees nil)
      trees
      ⇒ (pine)


      Where did I go wrong expanding the example?










      share|improve this question
















      I am starting to learn elisp and working through this tutorial https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/eintr/kill_002dnew-function.html
      and I do not understand this basic example:



       (setq trees '(maple oak pine birch))
      ⇒ (maple oak pine birch)

      (setcdr (nthcdr 2 trees) nil)
      ⇒ nil

      trees
      ⇒ (maple oak pine) ;I was expecting: (pine)


      How does (setcdr (nthcdr 2 trees) nil) remove the last element from the trees list?



      Here is the same example manually expanded from the inside out:



       (setq trees '(maple oak pine birch))
      ⇒ (maple oak pine birch)

      (nthcdr 2 trees)
      ⇒ (pine birch)

      (setq trees '(pine birch))
      ⇒ (pine birch)

      (setcdr trees nil)
      trees
      ⇒ (pine)


      Where did I go wrong expanding the example?







      elisp list lisp






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 12 hours ago









      Drew

      49.3k463108




      49.3k463108










      asked 19 hours ago









      wolfvwolfv

      549217




      549217






















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          6














          Formal answer



          In your expanded example you set the variable trees to a new value in:



          (setq trees '(pine birch))


          That is not what happens in the original example. In the original example really the cdr of (nthcdr 2 trees) is set.



          If you want to assign the intermediate value to a variable for better understanding you should introduce a new one, e.g., trees-tail would be an appropriate name:



          (setq trees '(maple oak pine birch))
          ;; ⇒ (maple oak pine birch)

          (setq trees-tail (nthcdr 2 trees))
          ;; ⇒ (pine birch)

          (setcdr trees-tail nil)
          ;; trees-tail ⇒ (pine)

          trees
          ;; ⇒ (maple oak pine)


          Additional explanation



          Note that lists are actually linked lists of conses. A cons is a construct of two cells, named car and cdr. The car is used for the value of the cons and the cdr is used to link to the next cons or it is set to nil to signal the end of the list.



          After setting the value of trees to the list (maple oak pine birch) you have the following structure of linked conses:



          Structure of the value of trees



          The two-parted rectangles are the conses. The first part is the car the second is the cdr.



          The value of trees just refers to the first cons of the list.



          After setting trees-tail to the second cdr of the value of trees it also points to the pine-cons:



          Structure of the value of trees-tail



          If we now set the cdr of trees-tail to nil we break the link to the birch-cons. That cons is no longer referred to by any variable or link and will be removed through the next garbage-collect.



          Structure of the value of trees after (setcdr trees-tail nil)



          Additional Remarks





          1. The car and the cdr of a cons are actually cells of the same structure. You can also set the car as link and get a tree structure instead of a list.

            Example: (setq trees '(maple (birch) pine))



            Tree structure




          2. You can set the cdr of the last cons to a value instead of nil. Such a structure is called a dotted list.

            Example: `(setq trees '(maple oak pine . birch))



            enter image description here



          3. In Common Lisp you shouldn't modify quoted lists (i.e., constant lists).

            Instead of
            (setq trees '(maple oak pine birch))

            you would use
            (setq trees (list 'maple 'oak 'pine 'pirch))

            or
            (setq trees (copy-list '(maple oak pine birch)))

            The reason for that is the common subexpression optimization of lisp compilers.

            The rules for Emacs lisp in that respect are not clearly stated in the Emacs lisp manual. There is already a discussion about that in another emacs.se question.

            But since there are examples of structure modifications of quoted lists in the Elisp manual you are currently on the safe side.

            Be aware that this might change in the future.







          share|improve this answer


























          • Why does running (setcdr trees-tail nil) change the value of trees?

            – wolfv
            17 hours ago











          • @wolfv I've added some explanation with pictures. Does that help?

            – Tobias
            16 hours ago











          • What a great explanation. Thank you for your help.

            – wolfv
            15 hours ago











          • There are some similar diagrams in the Elisp Intro manual, but in the chapter following the one @wolfv is asking about: (eintr) Lists diagrammed. I wonder if it would make sense to reorder.

            – npostavs
            14 hours ago












          Your Answer








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          1 Answer
          1






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          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          6














          Formal answer



          In your expanded example you set the variable trees to a new value in:



          (setq trees '(pine birch))


          That is not what happens in the original example. In the original example really the cdr of (nthcdr 2 trees) is set.



          If you want to assign the intermediate value to a variable for better understanding you should introduce a new one, e.g., trees-tail would be an appropriate name:



          (setq trees '(maple oak pine birch))
          ;; ⇒ (maple oak pine birch)

          (setq trees-tail (nthcdr 2 trees))
          ;; ⇒ (pine birch)

          (setcdr trees-tail nil)
          ;; trees-tail ⇒ (pine)

          trees
          ;; ⇒ (maple oak pine)


          Additional explanation



          Note that lists are actually linked lists of conses. A cons is a construct of two cells, named car and cdr. The car is used for the value of the cons and the cdr is used to link to the next cons or it is set to nil to signal the end of the list.



          After setting the value of trees to the list (maple oak pine birch) you have the following structure of linked conses:



          Structure of the value of trees



          The two-parted rectangles are the conses. The first part is the car the second is the cdr.



          The value of trees just refers to the first cons of the list.



          After setting trees-tail to the second cdr of the value of trees it also points to the pine-cons:



          Structure of the value of trees-tail



          If we now set the cdr of trees-tail to nil we break the link to the birch-cons. That cons is no longer referred to by any variable or link and will be removed through the next garbage-collect.



          Structure of the value of trees after (setcdr trees-tail nil)



          Additional Remarks





          1. The car and the cdr of a cons are actually cells of the same structure. You can also set the car as link and get a tree structure instead of a list.

            Example: (setq trees '(maple (birch) pine))



            Tree structure




          2. You can set the cdr of the last cons to a value instead of nil. Such a structure is called a dotted list.

            Example: `(setq trees '(maple oak pine . birch))



            enter image description here



          3. In Common Lisp you shouldn't modify quoted lists (i.e., constant lists).

            Instead of
            (setq trees '(maple oak pine birch))

            you would use
            (setq trees (list 'maple 'oak 'pine 'pirch))

            or
            (setq trees (copy-list '(maple oak pine birch)))

            The reason for that is the common subexpression optimization of lisp compilers.

            The rules for Emacs lisp in that respect are not clearly stated in the Emacs lisp manual. There is already a discussion about that in another emacs.se question.

            But since there are examples of structure modifications of quoted lists in the Elisp manual you are currently on the safe side.

            Be aware that this might change in the future.







          share|improve this answer


























          • Why does running (setcdr trees-tail nil) change the value of trees?

            – wolfv
            17 hours ago











          • @wolfv I've added some explanation with pictures. Does that help?

            – Tobias
            16 hours ago











          • What a great explanation. Thank you for your help.

            – wolfv
            15 hours ago











          • There are some similar diagrams in the Elisp Intro manual, but in the chapter following the one @wolfv is asking about: (eintr) Lists diagrammed. I wonder if it would make sense to reorder.

            – npostavs
            14 hours ago
















          6














          Formal answer



          In your expanded example you set the variable trees to a new value in:



          (setq trees '(pine birch))


          That is not what happens in the original example. In the original example really the cdr of (nthcdr 2 trees) is set.



          If you want to assign the intermediate value to a variable for better understanding you should introduce a new one, e.g., trees-tail would be an appropriate name:



          (setq trees '(maple oak pine birch))
          ;; ⇒ (maple oak pine birch)

          (setq trees-tail (nthcdr 2 trees))
          ;; ⇒ (pine birch)

          (setcdr trees-tail nil)
          ;; trees-tail ⇒ (pine)

          trees
          ;; ⇒ (maple oak pine)


          Additional explanation



          Note that lists are actually linked lists of conses. A cons is a construct of two cells, named car and cdr. The car is used for the value of the cons and the cdr is used to link to the next cons or it is set to nil to signal the end of the list.



          After setting the value of trees to the list (maple oak pine birch) you have the following structure of linked conses:



          Structure of the value of trees



          The two-parted rectangles are the conses. The first part is the car the second is the cdr.



          The value of trees just refers to the first cons of the list.



          After setting trees-tail to the second cdr of the value of trees it also points to the pine-cons:



          Structure of the value of trees-tail



          If we now set the cdr of trees-tail to nil we break the link to the birch-cons. That cons is no longer referred to by any variable or link and will be removed through the next garbage-collect.



          Structure of the value of trees after (setcdr trees-tail nil)



          Additional Remarks





          1. The car and the cdr of a cons are actually cells of the same structure. You can also set the car as link and get a tree structure instead of a list.

            Example: (setq trees '(maple (birch) pine))



            Tree structure




          2. You can set the cdr of the last cons to a value instead of nil. Such a structure is called a dotted list.

            Example: `(setq trees '(maple oak pine . birch))



            enter image description here



          3. In Common Lisp you shouldn't modify quoted lists (i.e., constant lists).

            Instead of
            (setq trees '(maple oak pine birch))

            you would use
            (setq trees (list 'maple 'oak 'pine 'pirch))

            or
            (setq trees (copy-list '(maple oak pine birch)))

            The reason for that is the common subexpression optimization of lisp compilers.

            The rules for Emacs lisp in that respect are not clearly stated in the Emacs lisp manual. There is already a discussion about that in another emacs.se question.

            But since there are examples of structure modifications of quoted lists in the Elisp manual you are currently on the safe side.

            Be aware that this might change in the future.







          share|improve this answer


























          • Why does running (setcdr trees-tail nil) change the value of trees?

            – wolfv
            17 hours ago











          • @wolfv I've added some explanation with pictures. Does that help?

            – Tobias
            16 hours ago











          • What a great explanation. Thank you for your help.

            – wolfv
            15 hours ago











          • There are some similar diagrams in the Elisp Intro manual, but in the chapter following the one @wolfv is asking about: (eintr) Lists diagrammed. I wonder if it would make sense to reorder.

            – npostavs
            14 hours ago














          6












          6








          6







          Formal answer



          In your expanded example you set the variable trees to a new value in:



          (setq trees '(pine birch))


          That is not what happens in the original example. In the original example really the cdr of (nthcdr 2 trees) is set.



          If you want to assign the intermediate value to a variable for better understanding you should introduce a new one, e.g., trees-tail would be an appropriate name:



          (setq trees '(maple oak pine birch))
          ;; ⇒ (maple oak pine birch)

          (setq trees-tail (nthcdr 2 trees))
          ;; ⇒ (pine birch)

          (setcdr trees-tail nil)
          ;; trees-tail ⇒ (pine)

          trees
          ;; ⇒ (maple oak pine)


          Additional explanation



          Note that lists are actually linked lists of conses. A cons is a construct of two cells, named car and cdr. The car is used for the value of the cons and the cdr is used to link to the next cons or it is set to nil to signal the end of the list.



          After setting the value of trees to the list (maple oak pine birch) you have the following structure of linked conses:



          Structure of the value of trees



          The two-parted rectangles are the conses. The first part is the car the second is the cdr.



          The value of trees just refers to the first cons of the list.



          After setting trees-tail to the second cdr of the value of trees it also points to the pine-cons:



          Structure of the value of trees-tail



          If we now set the cdr of trees-tail to nil we break the link to the birch-cons. That cons is no longer referred to by any variable or link and will be removed through the next garbage-collect.



          Structure of the value of trees after (setcdr trees-tail nil)



          Additional Remarks





          1. The car and the cdr of a cons are actually cells of the same structure. You can also set the car as link and get a tree structure instead of a list.

            Example: (setq trees '(maple (birch) pine))



            Tree structure




          2. You can set the cdr of the last cons to a value instead of nil. Such a structure is called a dotted list.

            Example: `(setq trees '(maple oak pine . birch))



            enter image description here



          3. In Common Lisp you shouldn't modify quoted lists (i.e., constant lists).

            Instead of
            (setq trees '(maple oak pine birch))

            you would use
            (setq trees (list 'maple 'oak 'pine 'pirch))

            or
            (setq trees (copy-list '(maple oak pine birch)))

            The reason for that is the common subexpression optimization of lisp compilers.

            The rules for Emacs lisp in that respect are not clearly stated in the Emacs lisp manual. There is already a discussion about that in another emacs.se question.

            But since there are examples of structure modifications of quoted lists in the Elisp manual you are currently on the safe side.

            Be aware that this might change in the future.







          share|improve this answer















          Formal answer



          In your expanded example you set the variable trees to a new value in:



          (setq trees '(pine birch))


          That is not what happens in the original example. In the original example really the cdr of (nthcdr 2 trees) is set.



          If you want to assign the intermediate value to a variable for better understanding you should introduce a new one, e.g., trees-tail would be an appropriate name:



          (setq trees '(maple oak pine birch))
          ;; ⇒ (maple oak pine birch)

          (setq trees-tail (nthcdr 2 trees))
          ;; ⇒ (pine birch)

          (setcdr trees-tail nil)
          ;; trees-tail ⇒ (pine)

          trees
          ;; ⇒ (maple oak pine)


          Additional explanation



          Note that lists are actually linked lists of conses. A cons is a construct of two cells, named car and cdr. The car is used for the value of the cons and the cdr is used to link to the next cons or it is set to nil to signal the end of the list.



          After setting the value of trees to the list (maple oak pine birch) you have the following structure of linked conses:



          Structure of the value of trees



          The two-parted rectangles are the conses. The first part is the car the second is the cdr.



          The value of trees just refers to the first cons of the list.



          After setting trees-tail to the second cdr of the value of trees it also points to the pine-cons:



          Structure of the value of trees-tail



          If we now set the cdr of trees-tail to nil we break the link to the birch-cons. That cons is no longer referred to by any variable or link and will be removed through the next garbage-collect.



          Structure of the value of trees after (setcdr trees-tail nil)



          Additional Remarks





          1. The car and the cdr of a cons are actually cells of the same structure. You can also set the car as link and get a tree structure instead of a list.

            Example: (setq trees '(maple (birch) pine))



            Tree structure




          2. You can set the cdr of the last cons to a value instead of nil. Such a structure is called a dotted list.

            Example: `(setq trees '(maple oak pine . birch))



            enter image description here



          3. In Common Lisp you shouldn't modify quoted lists (i.e., constant lists).

            Instead of
            (setq trees '(maple oak pine birch))

            you would use
            (setq trees (list 'maple 'oak 'pine 'pirch))

            or
            (setq trees (copy-list '(maple oak pine birch)))

            The reason for that is the common subexpression optimization of lisp compilers.

            The rules for Emacs lisp in that respect are not clearly stated in the Emacs lisp manual. There is already a discussion about that in another emacs.se question.

            But since there are examples of structure modifications of quoted lists in the Elisp manual you are currently on the safe side.

            Be aware that this might change in the future.








          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 14 hours ago

























          answered 17 hours ago









          TobiasTobias

          15.3k11035




          15.3k11035













          • Why does running (setcdr trees-tail nil) change the value of trees?

            – wolfv
            17 hours ago











          • @wolfv I've added some explanation with pictures. Does that help?

            – Tobias
            16 hours ago











          • What a great explanation. Thank you for your help.

            – wolfv
            15 hours ago











          • There are some similar diagrams in the Elisp Intro manual, but in the chapter following the one @wolfv is asking about: (eintr) Lists diagrammed. I wonder if it would make sense to reorder.

            – npostavs
            14 hours ago



















          • Why does running (setcdr trees-tail nil) change the value of trees?

            – wolfv
            17 hours ago











          • @wolfv I've added some explanation with pictures. Does that help?

            – Tobias
            16 hours ago











          • What a great explanation. Thank you for your help.

            – wolfv
            15 hours ago











          • There are some similar diagrams in the Elisp Intro manual, but in the chapter following the one @wolfv is asking about: (eintr) Lists diagrammed. I wonder if it would make sense to reorder.

            – npostavs
            14 hours ago

















          Why does running (setcdr trees-tail nil) change the value of trees?

          – wolfv
          17 hours ago





          Why does running (setcdr trees-tail nil) change the value of trees?

          – wolfv
          17 hours ago













          @wolfv I've added some explanation with pictures. Does that help?

          – Tobias
          16 hours ago





          @wolfv I've added some explanation with pictures. Does that help?

          – Tobias
          16 hours ago













          What a great explanation. Thank you for your help.

          – wolfv
          15 hours ago





          What a great explanation. Thank you for your help.

          – wolfv
          15 hours ago













          There are some similar diagrams in the Elisp Intro manual, but in the chapter following the one @wolfv is asking about: (eintr) Lists diagrammed. I wonder if it would make sense to reorder.

          – npostavs
          14 hours ago





          There are some similar diagrams in the Elisp Intro manual, but in the chapter following the one @wolfv is asking about: (eintr) Lists diagrammed. I wonder if it would make sense to reorder.

          – npostavs
          14 hours ago


















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