How does initiative work when teleporting into combat? The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer...
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How does initiative work when teleporting into combat?
The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InWhat happens when initiative allows a player to act before the player that started the combat?Readying an action before combatHow should a stealthy attack start combat?How do you handle “until next turn” effects with the Speed Factor Initiative Variant?Can a Surprised character use powers triggered when initiative is rolled?How Does Assassinate Work when Reinforcing a Fight that has already started?If an attack alerts someone to your presence, can their initiative save them from being surprised in time?Is this alternative initiative house-rule balanced?Is initiative order affected by a player volunteering to begin combat?How does Spiritual Weapon work against Mirror Image?If the DM rolls initiative once for a group of monsters, how do end-of-turn effects work?
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A Wizard PC Teleports their party from a safe place directly to the location of a group of foes, who the party intends to attack.
If the foes did not know this was about to happen, they should be surprised.
How does initiative work in this situation - does the Teleport take place on the Wizard's first turn in combat, or prior to combat entirely? To illustrate why I am confused, there are a few possible adjudications below.
- The moment the Wizard decides they want to Teleport into combat, initiative is rolled. The Wizard casts Teleport on their turn, which may be after the turns of their companions, and teleports to the foes' location. Any foes who rolled higher initiative will no longer be surprised. The Wizard takes their next turn in the second round, in which no foes will be surprised.
- At the point the Wizard casts Teleport, they are not in combat. After the spell is cast, (since the party intends to immediately attack) the combat begins, and initative is rolled. The Wizard takes their next turn in the first round, while some foes may still be surprised (depending on their initiative).
- Case #1, but the Wizard can use Ready-ing the Teleport spell to effectively turn it into case #2.
dnd-5e combat teleportation initiative
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$begingroup$
A Wizard PC Teleports their party from a safe place directly to the location of a group of foes, who the party intends to attack.
If the foes did not know this was about to happen, they should be surprised.
How does initiative work in this situation - does the Teleport take place on the Wizard's first turn in combat, or prior to combat entirely? To illustrate why I am confused, there are a few possible adjudications below.
- The moment the Wizard decides they want to Teleport into combat, initiative is rolled. The Wizard casts Teleport on their turn, which may be after the turns of their companions, and teleports to the foes' location. Any foes who rolled higher initiative will no longer be surprised. The Wizard takes their next turn in the second round, in which no foes will be surprised.
- At the point the Wizard casts Teleport, they are not in combat. After the spell is cast, (since the party intends to immediately attack) the combat begins, and initative is rolled. The Wizard takes their next turn in the first round, while some foes may still be surprised (depending on their initiative).
- Case #1, but the Wizard can use Ready-ing the Teleport spell to effectively turn it into case #2.
dnd-5e combat teleportation initiative
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V2Blast
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Related: What happens when initiative allows a player to act before the player that started the combat?
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– Rubiksmoose
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A Wizard PC Teleports their party from a safe place directly to the location of a group of foes, who the party intends to attack.
If the foes did not know this was about to happen, they should be surprised.
How does initiative work in this situation - does the Teleport take place on the Wizard's first turn in combat, or prior to combat entirely? To illustrate why I am confused, there are a few possible adjudications below.
- The moment the Wizard decides they want to Teleport into combat, initiative is rolled. The Wizard casts Teleport on their turn, which may be after the turns of their companions, and teleports to the foes' location. Any foes who rolled higher initiative will no longer be surprised. The Wizard takes their next turn in the second round, in which no foes will be surprised.
- At the point the Wizard casts Teleport, they are not in combat. After the spell is cast, (since the party intends to immediately attack) the combat begins, and initative is rolled. The Wizard takes their next turn in the first round, while some foes may still be surprised (depending on their initiative).
- Case #1, but the Wizard can use Ready-ing the Teleport spell to effectively turn it into case #2.
dnd-5e combat teleportation initiative
edited yesterday
V2Blast
26.6k591162
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VigilVigil
6,7503284
$endgroup$
A Wizard PC Teleports their party from a safe place directly to the location of a group of foes, who the party intends to attack.
If the foes did not know this was about to happen, they should be surprised.
How does initiative work in this situation - does the Teleport take place on the Wizard's first turn in combat, or prior to combat entirely? To illustrate why I am confused, there are a few possible adjudications below.
- The moment the Wizard decides they want to Teleport into combat, initiative is rolled. The Wizard casts Teleport on their turn, which may be after the turns of their companions, and teleports to the foes' location. Any foes who rolled higher initiative will no longer be surprised. The Wizard takes their next turn in the second round, in which no foes will be surprised.
- At the point the Wizard casts Teleport, they are not in combat. After the spell is cast, (since the party intends to immediately attack) the combat begins, and initative is rolled. The Wizard takes their next turn in the first round, while some foes may still be surprised (depending on their initiative).
- Case #1, but the Wizard can use Ready-ing the Teleport spell to effectively turn it into case #2.
dnd-5e combat teleportation initiative
dnd-5e combat teleportation initiative
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VigilVigil
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Related: What happens when initiative allows a player to act before the player that started the combat?
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– Rubiksmoose
yesterday
add a comment |
1
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Related: What happens when initiative allows a player to act before the player that started the combat?
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– Rubiksmoose
yesterday
1
1
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Related: What happens when initiative allows a player to act before the player that started the combat?
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– Rubiksmoose
yesterday
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Related: What happens when initiative allows a player to act before the player that started the combat?
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– Rubiksmoose
yesterday
add a comment |
4 Answers
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I think you are confused about how surprise works:
The GM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the GM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn’t notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.
If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can’t take a reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren’t.
The GM decides who is surprised, not the initiative roll.
So here is how that event would play out.
- Wizard teleports into combat
- Everyone rolls initiative
- Turns start in initiative order
- Everyone who is not surprised gets to act while people who are surprised skip their turn
- Assuming the PCs have not teleported again before the end of round 1, round 2 of combat would start
- Turns begin to take place in initiative order; no one is surprised anymore
For scenario 3:
The wizard cannot ready an action outside of combat, so he could not ready the teleport spell until combat has begun.
edited yesterday
V2Blast
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answered yesterday
SaggingRufusSaggingRufus
2,55921833
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Surprise isn't really the main thrust of the question, and perhaps my inclusion of it is confusing the issue. I remain uncertain how to adjudicate even if the foes are aware of this incoming teleport. A better phrasing might be "is the Teleport spell part of the first round of combat, or separate from it?". Your answer initially suggests the latter, but you later say that the Wizard can't Ready outside combat, presumably because the Ready action is under "Actions in Combat" in the PHB. But so too is "Cast a Spell", so surely by that measure the Teleport can't be cast outside of combat?
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– Vigil
yesterday
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I've edited the question to pull out that issue a little more (without removing surprise from the question).
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– Vigil
yesterday
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Its kind of tricky because they both happen at the same time. Teleport is initially cast outside of combat, but by the time the spell has ended, combat has begun. As soon at the enemy can tell the party is there, they become surprised (and thus combat starts). So when you are in area A, there is no combat, but as soon as the something surprises the enemies in area B combat begins. So before anyone can even do anything, combat has already started. If you want to be super granular about it, technically the teleport would finish like a small fraction of a second before the enemy is surprised 1/2
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– SaggingRufus
yesterday
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then after the teleport (again like a fraction of a second after) the enemies are surprise and combat begins. It would close enough that you could consider basically at the same time 2/2
$endgroup$
– SaggingRufus
yesterday
$begingroup$
Note that you should not mark your edits. Simply make your answer the best version at all times. If you need to make a major (or minor) addition or revision simply blend it naturally into your post. We have edit histories if we ever want to see what changed.
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– Rubiksmoose
yesterday
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Initiative starts after the wizard teleports in, but that's not the whole story.
This is fundamentally no different from someone arriving in combat by any other means. Initiative represents how quickly they all react to a threat, so it only starts when there's a threat present. So ignoring surprise, the outcome is that the wizard would arrive, then everyone who rolled above him would act, then the wizard, followed by everyone else.
But you can't ignore surprise.
Compare this to a case that's almost identical from the perspective of everyone else in the fight: instead of teleporting in, the wizard was invisible and hiding among them. This is the textbook case for surprise. If nobody noticed him lurking there then the enemies will all be surprised. And they can't notice him in advance if he teleports in, because he's not there.
Now the turn order is that the wizard teleports in, then gets a turn, then everyone who rolled above the wizard gets a turn, then the wizard gets a second turn, and then everyone who rolled below the wizard gets a turn. Okay, fine, battlefield teleportation is really powerful.
However, this is very sensitive to exactly how the DM wants teleportation to work. The above case assumes it's like Nightcrawler from X-Men: BAMF, ninja in your face. Tweak it a little so that it's like a Star Trek transporter, where your arrival is announced by a few seconds of swirly lights and noise, and now nobody is surprised. They all get to react to the wizard's arrival normally.
If you don't like the extreme result of everyone being surprised, but still want some benefit for setting up a teleport ambush, consider giving the wizard advantage on initiative. This makes this tactic powerful (especially if they choose their destination carefully) without being a guaranteed first strike.
answered yesterday
Mark WellsMark Wells
7,00211849
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The spell says "instantly transports". Of course it could be houseruled otherwise, but doesn't that "instantly" contradict the Star Trek style?
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– Jack
yesterday
2
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The combat rules don't distinguish lengths of time shorter than a few seconds.
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– Mark Wells
yesterday
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Another factor to consider is the physical orientation of the attackers when they arrive on scene. Do they all appear facing the correct direction to immediately strike against the defenders, or could they show up facing the wrong way, possibly giving the defenders an opportunity to take action before the attackers can get turned around? How does the definition of Teleport handle that?
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– Monty Harder
yesterday
3
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I don't think you can directly compare teleporting in to suddenly becoming visible, because mechanically, invisibility ends only right after the first aggressive act, whereas when you arrive via teleportation, you have just cast a spell can cannot act again immediately, so it makes sense to roll initiative with everyone else.
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– Ryan Thompson
yesterday
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@RyanThompson Also with invisibility, you can see what you are stabbing before you become visible, and get into back-stabbing range :3
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– Tezra
yesterday
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In general, Combat starts as soon as an attacker has a target. When Teleport is cast, no one on either side knows where the others are, so no one has a target. (If you somehow know where the enemies exact position is before the teleport, say with binoculars while overlooking the enemy, then you are in a surprise round with everyone but the caster readying an action to attack their target once the teleport is resolved.)
After the teleport, everyone has to acquire a target. If you teleported into the open, combat starts and no one is surprised (everyone notices everyone at the same time). If you teleport into an empty tent or very dark corner however, the party can attempt a stealth check to begin their attack with surprise (The party notices them, but the enemy still needs to notice the party).
Note that in any way this plays out, effectively the teleporter casts on turn 1, which will play out as a normal round like the party where performing an ambush by foot. (The Teleport just makes it easier to close the distance without being noticed)
I also want to note that no matter how the DM rules on this first round, as long as the party planned the ambush right (during meal time or night watch); that the enemy will also have to spend time getting their armour/weapons or fight without them. So the best benefit here is catching the enemy with their pants down rather than by surprise.
answered yesterday
TezraTezra
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The Teleport spell happens before initiative is rolled
You don't know whether combat is going to occur until the effects of the Teleport spell are resolved. Unless there is a permanent teleportation circle at the ambush location or they have an 'associated object' from where they want to teleport to, there is a chance that the players will land 'Off Target' or in a 'Similar Area' rather than the intended location (Teleport spell, PHB pg 281). As a DM, you'll have to consider how well they know the area they are trying to teleport to in order to determine their chances of teleporting to the correct location.
The players can be prepared to fight right after teleporting and I would reward them for the tactic by having the enemy be surprised.
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CertainlyNotCertainlyNot
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Welcome! Please take the tour as an introduction to the site and check the help center for further guidance. This answer seems to tangentially touch on the question but is discussing things that aren't exactly the question asked. The contribution is still appreciated but this does not really seem to be answering the question beyond the title.
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4 Answers
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4 Answers
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I think you are confused about how surprise works:
The GM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the GM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn’t notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.
If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can’t take a reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren’t.
The GM decides who is surprised, not the initiative roll.
So here is how that event would play out.
- Wizard teleports into combat
- Everyone rolls initiative
- Turns start in initiative order
- Everyone who is not surprised gets to act while people who are surprised skip their turn
- Assuming the PCs have not teleported again before the end of round 1, round 2 of combat would start
- Turns begin to take place in initiative order; no one is surprised anymore
For scenario 3:
The wizard cannot ready an action outside of combat, so he could not ready the teleport spell until combat has begun.
edited yesterday
V2Blast
26.6k591162
answered yesterday
SaggingRufusSaggingRufus
2,55921833
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Surprise isn't really the main thrust of the question, and perhaps my inclusion of it is confusing the issue. I remain uncertain how to adjudicate even if the foes are aware of this incoming teleport. A better phrasing might be "is the Teleport spell part of the first round of combat, or separate from it?". Your answer initially suggests the latter, but you later say that the Wizard can't Ready outside combat, presumably because the Ready action is under "Actions in Combat" in the PHB. But so too is "Cast a Spell", so surely by that measure the Teleport can't be cast outside of combat?
$endgroup$
– Vigil
yesterday
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I've edited the question to pull out that issue a little more (without removing surprise from the question).
$endgroup$
– Vigil
yesterday
$begingroup$
Its kind of tricky because they both happen at the same time. Teleport is initially cast outside of combat, but by the time the spell has ended, combat has begun. As soon at the enemy can tell the party is there, they become surprised (and thus combat starts). So when you are in area A, there is no combat, but as soon as the something surprises the enemies in area B combat begins. So before anyone can even do anything, combat has already started. If you want to be super granular about it, technically the teleport would finish like a small fraction of a second before the enemy is surprised 1/2
$endgroup$
– SaggingRufus
yesterday
$begingroup$
then after the teleport (again like a fraction of a second after) the enemies are surprise and combat begins. It would close enough that you could consider basically at the same time 2/2
$endgroup$
– SaggingRufus
yesterday
$begingroup$
Note that you should not mark your edits. Simply make your answer the best version at all times. If you need to make a major (or minor) addition or revision simply blend it naturally into your post. We have edit histories if we ever want to see what changed.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
yesterday
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
I think you are confused about how surprise works:
The GM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the GM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn’t notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.
If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can’t take a reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren’t.
The GM decides who is surprised, not the initiative roll.
So here is how that event would play out.
- Wizard teleports into combat
- Everyone rolls initiative
- Turns start in initiative order
- Everyone who is not surprised gets to act while people who are surprised skip their turn
- Assuming the PCs have not teleported again before the end of round 1, round 2 of combat would start
- Turns begin to take place in initiative order; no one is surprised anymore
For scenario 3:
The wizard cannot ready an action outside of combat, so he could not ready the teleport spell until combat has begun.
edited yesterday
V2Blast
26.6k591162
answered yesterday
SaggingRufusSaggingRufus
2,55921833
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Surprise isn't really the main thrust of the question, and perhaps my inclusion of it is confusing the issue. I remain uncertain how to adjudicate even if the foes are aware of this incoming teleport. A better phrasing might be "is the Teleport spell part of the first round of combat, or separate from it?". Your answer initially suggests the latter, but you later say that the Wizard can't Ready outside combat, presumably because the Ready action is under "Actions in Combat" in the PHB. But so too is "Cast a Spell", so surely by that measure the Teleport can't be cast outside of combat?
$endgroup$
– Vigil
yesterday
$begingroup$
I've edited the question to pull out that issue a little more (without removing surprise from the question).
$endgroup$
– Vigil
yesterday
$begingroup$
Its kind of tricky because they both happen at the same time. Teleport is initially cast outside of combat, but by the time the spell has ended, combat has begun. As soon at the enemy can tell the party is there, they become surprised (and thus combat starts). So when you are in area A, there is no combat, but as soon as the something surprises the enemies in area B combat begins. So before anyone can even do anything, combat has already started. If you want to be super granular about it, technically the teleport would finish like a small fraction of a second before the enemy is surprised 1/2
$endgroup$
– SaggingRufus
yesterday
$begingroup$
then after the teleport (again like a fraction of a second after) the enemies are surprise and combat begins. It would close enough that you could consider basically at the same time 2/2
$endgroup$
– SaggingRufus
yesterday
$begingroup$
Note that you should not mark your edits. Simply make your answer the best version at all times. If you need to make a major (or minor) addition or revision simply blend it naturally into your post. We have edit histories if we ever want to see what changed.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
yesterday
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
I think you are confused about how surprise works:
The GM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the GM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn’t notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.
If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can’t take a reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren’t.
The GM decides who is surprised, not the initiative roll.
So here is how that event would play out.
- Wizard teleports into combat
- Everyone rolls initiative
- Turns start in initiative order
- Everyone who is not surprised gets to act while people who are surprised skip their turn
- Assuming the PCs have not teleported again before the end of round 1, round 2 of combat would start
- Turns begin to take place in initiative order; no one is surprised anymore
For scenario 3:
The wizard cannot ready an action outside of combat, so he could not ready the teleport spell until combat has begun.
edited yesterday
V2Blast
26.6k591162
answered yesterday
SaggingRufusSaggingRufus
2,55921833
$endgroup$
I think you are confused about how surprise works:
The GM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the GM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn’t notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.
If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can’t take a reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren’t.
The GM decides who is surprised, not the initiative roll.
So here is how that event would play out.
- Wizard teleports into combat
- Everyone rolls initiative
- Turns start in initiative order
- Everyone who is not surprised gets to act while people who are surprised skip their turn
- Assuming the PCs have not teleported again before the end of round 1, round 2 of combat would start
- Turns begin to take place in initiative order; no one is surprised anymore
For scenario 3:
The wizard cannot ready an action outside of combat, so he could not ready the teleport spell until combat has begun.
edited yesterday
V2Blast
26.6k591162
answered yesterday
SaggingRufusSaggingRufus
2,55921833
edited yesterday
V2Blast
26.6k591162
edited yesterday
V2Blast
26.6k591162
edited yesterday
V2Blast
26.6k591162
26.6k591162
answered yesterday
SaggingRufusSaggingRufus
2,55921833
answered yesterday
SaggingRufusSaggingRufus
2,55921833
answered yesterday
SaggingRufusSaggingRufus
2,55921833
2,55921833
$begingroup$
Surprise isn't really the main thrust of the question, and perhaps my inclusion of it is confusing the issue. I remain uncertain how to adjudicate even if the foes are aware of this incoming teleport. A better phrasing might be "is the Teleport spell part of the first round of combat, or separate from it?". Your answer initially suggests the latter, but you later say that the Wizard can't Ready outside combat, presumably because the Ready action is under "Actions in Combat" in the PHB. But so too is "Cast a Spell", so surely by that measure the Teleport can't be cast outside of combat?
$endgroup$
– Vigil
yesterday
$begingroup$
I've edited the question to pull out that issue a little more (without removing surprise from the question).
$endgroup$
– Vigil
yesterday
$begingroup$
Its kind of tricky because they both happen at the same time. Teleport is initially cast outside of combat, but by the time the spell has ended, combat has begun. As soon at the enemy can tell the party is there, they become surprised (and thus combat starts). So when you are in area A, there is no combat, but as soon as the something surprises the enemies in area B combat begins. So before anyone can even do anything, combat has already started. If you want to be super granular about it, technically the teleport would finish like a small fraction of a second before the enemy is surprised 1/2
$endgroup$
– SaggingRufus
yesterday
$begingroup$
then after the teleport (again like a fraction of a second after) the enemies are surprise and combat begins. It would close enough that you could consider basically at the same time 2/2
$endgroup$
– SaggingRufus
yesterday
$begingroup$
Note that you should not mark your edits. Simply make your answer the best version at all times. If you need to make a major (or minor) addition or revision simply blend it naturally into your post. We have edit histories if we ever want to see what changed.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
yesterday
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Surprise isn't really the main thrust of the question, and perhaps my inclusion of it is confusing the issue. I remain uncertain how to adjudicate even if the foes are aware of this incoming teleport. A better phrasing might be "is the Teleport spell part of the first round of combat, or separate from it?". Your answer initially suggests the latter, but you later say that the Wizard can't Ready outside combat, presumably because the Ready action is under "Actions in Combat" in the PHB. But so too is "Cast a Spell", so surely by that measure the Teleport can't be cast outside of combat?
$endgroup$
– Vigil
yesterday
$begingroup$
I've edited the question to pull out that issue a little more (without removing surprise from the question).
$endgroup$
– Vigil
yesterday
$begingroup$
Its kind of tricky because they both happen at the same time. Teleport is initially cast outside of combat, but by the time the spell has ended, combat has begun. As soon at the enemy can tell the party is there, they become surprised (and thus combat starts). So when you are in area A, there is no combat, but as soon as the something surprises the enemies in area B combat begins. So before anyone can even do anything, combat has already started. If you want to be super granular about it, technically the teleport would finish like a small fraction of a second before the enemy is surprised 1/2
$endgroup$
– SaggingRufus
yesterday
$begingroup$
then after the teleport (again like a fraction of a second after) the enemies are surprise and combat begins. It would close enough that you could consider basically at the same time 2/2
$endgroup$
– SaggingRufus
yesterday
$begingroup$
Note that you should not mark your edits. Simply make your answer the best version at all times. If you need to make a major (or minor) addition or revision simply blend it naturally into your post. We have edit histories if we ever want to see what changed.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
yesterday
$begingroup$
Surprise isn't really the main thrust of the question, and perhaps my inclusion of it is confusing the issue. I remain uncertain how to adjudicate even if the foes are aware of this incoming teleport. A better phrasing might be "is the Teleport spell part of the first round of combat, or separate from it?". Your answer initially suggests the latter, but you later say that the Wizard can't Ready outside combat, presumably because the Ready action is under "Actions in Combat" in the PHB. But so too is "Cast a Spell", so surely by that measure the Teleport can't be cast outside of combat?
$endgroup$
– Vigil
yesterday
$begingroup$
Surprise isn't really the main thrust of the question, and perhaps my inclusion of it is confusing the issue. I remain uncertain how to adjudicate even if the foes are aware of this incoming teleport. A better phrasing might be "is the Teleport spell part of the first round of combat, or separate from it?". Your answer initially suggests the latter, but you later say that the Wizard can't Ready outside combat, presumably because the Ready action is under "Actions in Combat" in the PHB. But so too is "Cast a Spell", so surely by that measure the Teleport can't be cast outside of combat?
$endgroup$
– Vigil
yesterday
$begingroup$
I've edited the question to pull out that issue a little more (without removing surprise from the question).
$endgroup$
– Vigil
yesterday
$begingroup$
I've edited the question to pull out that issue a little more (without removing surprise from the question).
$endgroup$
– Vigil
yesterday
$begingroup$
Its kind of tricky because they both happen at the same time. Teleport is initially cast outside of combat, but by the time the spell has ended, combat has begun. As soon at the enemy can tell the party is there, they become surprised (and thus combat starts). So when you are in area A, there is no combat, but as soon as the something surprises the enemies in area B combat begins. So before anyone can even do anything, combat has already started. If you want to be super granular about it, technically the teleport would finish like a small fraction of a second before the enemy is surprised 1/2
$endgroup$
– SaggingRufus
yesterday
$begingroup$
Its kind of tricky because they both happen at the same time. Teleport is initially cast outside of combat, but by the time the spell has ended, combat has begun. As soon at the enemy can tell the party is there, they become surprised (and thus combat starts). So when you are in area A, there is no combat, but as soon as the something surprises the enemies in area B combat begins. So before anyone can even do anything, combat has already started. If you want to be super granular about it, technically the teleport would finish like a small fraction of a second before the enemy is surprised 1/2
$endgroup$
– SaggingRufus
yesterday
$begingroup$
then after the teleport (again like a fraction of a second after) the enemies are surprise and combat begins. It would close enough that you could consider basically at the same time 2/2
$endgroup$
– SaggingRufus
yesterday
$begingroup$
then after the teleport (again like a fraction of a second after) the enemies are surprise and combat begins. It would close enough that you could consider basically at the same time 2/2
$endgroup$
– SaggingRufus
yesterday
$begingroup$
Note that you should not mark your edits. Simply make your answer the best version at all times. If you need to make a major (or minor) addition or revision simply blend it naturally into your post. We have edit histories if we ever want to see what changed.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
yesterday
$begingroup$
Note that you should not mark your edits. Simply make your answer the best version at all times. If you need to make a major (or minor) addition or revision simply blend it naturally into your post. We have edit histories if we ever want to see what changed.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
yesterday
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Initiative starts after the wizard teleports in, but that's not the whole story.
This is fundamentally no different from someone arriving in combat by any other means. Initiative represents how quickly they all react to a threat, so it only starts when there's a threat present. So ignoring surprise, the outcome is that the wizard would arrive, then everyone who rolled above him would act, then the wizard, followed by everyone else.
But you can't ignore surprise.
Compare this to a case that's almost identical from the perspective of everyone else in the fight: instead of teleporting in, the wizard was invisible and hiding among them. This is the textbook case for surprise. If nobody noticed him lurking there then the enemies will all be surprised. And they can't notice him in advance if he teleports in, because he's not there.
Now the turn order is that the wizard teleports in, then gets a turn, then everyone who rolled above the wizard gets a turn, then the wizard gets a second turn, and then everyone who rolled below the wizard gets a turn. Okay, fine, battlefield teleportation is really powerful.
However, this is very sensitive to exactly how the DM wants teleportation to work. The above case assumes it's like Nightcrawler from X-Men: BAMF, ninja in your face. Tweak it a little so that it's like a Star Trek transporter, where your arrival is announced by a few seconds of swirly lights and noise, and now nobody is surprised. They all get to react to the wizard's arrival normally.
If you don't like the extreme result of everyone being surprised, but still want some benefit for setting up a teleport ambush, consider giving the wizard advantage on initiative. This makes this tactic powerful (especially if they choose their destination carefully) without being a guaranteed first strike.
answered yesterday
Mark WellsMark Wells
7,00211849
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
The spell says "instantly transports". Of course it could be houseruled otherwise, but doesn't that "instantly" contradict the Star Trek style?
$endgroup$
– Jack
yesterday
2
$begingroup$
The combat rules don't distinguish lengths of time shorter than a few seconds.
$endgroup$
– Mark Wells
yesterday
$begingroup$
Another factor to consider is the physical orientation of the attackers when they arrive on scene. Do they all appear facing the correct direction to immediately strike against the defenders, or could they show up facing the wrong way, possibly giving the defenders an opportunity to take action before the attackers can get turned around? How does the definition of Teleport handle that?
$endgroup$
– Monty Harder
yesterday
3
$begingroup$
I don't think you can directly compare teleporting in to suddenly becoming visible, because mechanically, invisibility ends only right after the first aggressive act, whereas when you arrive via teleportation, you have just cast a spell can cannot act again immediately, so it makes sense to roll initiative with everyone else.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
yesterday
$begingroup$
@RyanThompson Also with invisibility, you can see what you are stabbing before you become visible, and get into back-stabbing range :3
$endgroup$
– Tezra
yesterday
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Initiative starts after the wizard teleports in, but that's not the whole story.
This is fundamentally no different from someone arriving in combat by any other means. Initiative represents how quickly they all react to a threat, so it only starts when there's a threat present. So ignoring surprise, the outcome is that the wizard would arrive, then everyone who rolled above him would act, then the wizard, followed by everyone else.
But you can't ignore surprise.
Compare this to a case that's almost identical from the perspective of everyone else in the fight: instead of teleporting in, the wizard was invisible and hiding among them. This is the textbook case for surprise. If nobody noticed him lurking there then the enemies will all be surprised. And they can't notice him in advance if he teleports in, because he's not there.
Now the turn order is that the wizard teleports in, then gets a turn, then everyone who rolled above the wizard gets a turn, then the wizard gets a second turn, and then everyone who rolled below the wizard gets a turn. Okay, fine, battlefield teleportation is really powerful.
However, this is very sensitive to exactly how the DM wants teleportation to work. The above case assumes it's like Nightcrawler from X-Men: BAMF, ninja in your face. Tweak it a little so that it's like a Star Trek transporter, where your arrival is announced by a few seconds of swirly lights and noise, and now nobody is surprised. They all get to react to the wizard's arrival normally.
If you don't like the extreme result of everyone being surprised, but still want some benefit for setting up a teleport ambush, consider giving the wizard advantage on initiative. This makes this tactic powerful (especially if they choose their destination carefully) without being a guaranteed first strike.
answered yesterday
Mark WellsMark Wells
7,00211849
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
The spell says "instantly transports". Of course it could be houseruled otherwise, but doesn't that "instantly" contradict the Star Trek style?
$endgroup$
– Jack
yesterday
2
$begingroup$
The combat rules don't distinguish lengths of time shorter than a few seconds.
$endgroup$
– Mark Wells
yesterday
$begingroup$
Another factor to consider is the physical orientation of the attackers when they arrive on scene. Do they all appear facing the correct direction to immediately strike against the defenders, or could they show up facing the wrong way, possibly giving the defenders an opportunity to take action before the attackers can get turned around? How does the definition of Teleport handle that?
$endgroup$
– Monty Harder
yesterday
3
$begingroup$
I don't think you can directly compare teleporting in to suddenly becoming visible, because mechanically, invisibility ends only right after the first aggressive act, whereas when you arrive via teleportation, you have just cast a spell can cannot act again immediately, so it makes sense to roll initiative with everyone else.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
yesterday
$begingroup$
@RyanThompson Also with invisibility, you can see what you are stabbing before you become visible, and get into back-stabbing range :3
$endgroup$
– Tezra
yesterday
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Initiative starts after the wizard teleports in, but that's not the whole story.
This is fundamentally no different from someone arriving in combat by any other means. Initiative represents how quickly they all react to a threat, so it only starts when there's a threat present. So ignoring surprise, the outcome is that the wizard would arrive, then everyone who rolled above him would act, then the wizard, followed by everyone else.
But you can't ignore surprise.
Compare this to a case that's almost identical from the perspective of everyone else in the fight: instead of teleporting in, the wizard was invisible and hiding among them. This is the textbook case for surprise. If nobody noticed him lurking there then the enemies will all be surprised. And they can't notice him in advance if he teleports in, because he's not there.
Now the turn order is that the wizard teleports in, then gets a turn, then everyone who rolled above the wizard gets a turn, then the wizard gets a second turn, and then everyone who rolled below the wizard gets a turn. Okay, fine, battlefield teleportation is really powerful.
However, this is very sensitive to exactly how the DM wants teleportation to work. The above case assumes it's like Nightcrawler from X-Men: BAMF, ninja in your face. Tweak it a little so that it's like a Star Trek transporter, where your arrival is announced by a few seconds of swirly lights and noise, and now nobody is surprised. They all get to react to the wizard's arrival normally.
If you don't like the extreme result of everyone being surprised, but still want some benefit for setting up a teleport ambush, consider giving the wizard advantage on initiative. This makes this tactic powerful (especially if they choose their destination carefully) without being a guaranteed first strike.
answered yesterday
Mark WellsMark Wells
7,00211849
$endgroup$
Initiative starts after the wizard teleports in, but that's not the whole story.
This is fundamentally no different from someone arriving in combat by any other means. Initiative represents how quickly they all react to a threat, so it only starts when there's a threat present. So ignoring surprise, the outcome is that the wizard would arrive, then everyone who rolled above him would act, then the wizard, followed by everyone else.
But you can't ignore surprise.
Compare this to a case that's almost identical from the perspective of everyone else in the fight: instead of teleporting in, the wizard was invisible and hiding among them. This is the textbook case for surprise. If nobody noticed him lurking there then the enemies will all be surprised. And they can't notice him in advance if he teleports in, because he's not there.
Now the turn order is that the wizard teleports in, then gets a turn, then everyone who rolled above the wizard gets a turn, then the wizard gets a second turn, and then everyone who rolled below the wizard gets a turn. Okay, fine, battlefield teleportation is really powerful.
However, this is very sensitive to exactly how the DM wants teleportation to work. The above case assumes it's like Nightcrawler from X-Men: BAMF, ninja in your face. Tweak it a little so that it's like a Star Trek transporter, where your arrival is announced by a few seconds of swirly lights and noise, and now nobody is surprised. They all get to react to the wizard's arrival normally.
If you don't like the extreme result of everyone being surprised, but still want some benefit for setting up a teleport ambush, consider giving the wizard advantage on initiative. This makes this tactic powerful (especially if they choose their destination carefully) without being a guaranteed first strike.
answered yesterday
Mark WellsMark Wells
7,00211849
answered yesterday
Mark WellsMark Wells
7,00211849
answered yesterday
Mark WellsMark Wells
7,00211849
answered yesterday
Mark WellsMark Wells
7,00211849
7,00211849
$begingroup$
The spell says "instantly transports". Of course it could be houseruled otherwise, but doesn't that "instantly" contradict the Star Trek style?
$endgroup$
– Jack
yesterday
2
$begingroup$
The combat rules don't distinguish lengths of time shorter than a few seconds.
$endgroup$
– Mark Wells
yesterday
$begingroup$
Another factor to consider is the physical orientation of the attackers when they arrive on scene. Do they all appear facing the correct direction to immediately strike against the defenders, or could they show up facing the wrong way, possibly giving the defenders an opportunity to take action before the attackers can get turned around? How does the definition of Teleport handle that?
$endgroup$
– Monty Harder
yesterday
3
$begingroup$
I don't think you can directly compare teleporting in to suddenly becoming visible, because mechanically, invisibility ends only right after the first aggressive act, whereas when you arrive via teleportation, you have just cast a spell can cannot act again immediately, so it makes sense to roll initiative with everyone else.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
yesterday
$begingroup$
@RyanThompson Also with invisibility, you can see what you are stabbing before you become visible, and get into back-stabbing range :3
$endgroup$
– Tezra
yesterday
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
The spell says "instantly transports". Of course it could be houseruled otherwise, but doesn't that "instantly" contradict the Star Trek style?
$endgroup$
– Jack
yesterday
2
$begingroup$
The combat rules don't distinguish lengths of time shorter than a few seconds.
$endgroup$
– Mark Wells
yesterday
$begingroup$
Another factor to consider is the physical orientation of the attackers when they arrive on scene. Do they all appear facing the correct direction to immediately strike against the defenders, or could they show up facing the wrong way, possibly giving the defenders an opportunity to take action before the attackers can get turned around? How does the definition of Teleport handle that?
$endgroup$
– Monty Harder
yesterday
3
$begingroup$
I don't think you can directly compare teleporting in to suddenly becoming visible, because mechanically, invisibility ends only right after the first aggressive act, whereas when you arrive via teleportation, you have just cast a spell can cannot act again immediately, so it makes sense to roll initiative with everyone else.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
yesterday
$begingroup$
@RyanThompson Also with invisibility, you can see what you are stabbing before you become visible, and get into back-stabbing range :3
$endgroup$
– Tezra
yesterday
$begingroup$
The spell says "instantly transports". Of course it could be houseruled otherwise, but doesn't that "instantly" contradict the Star Trek style?
$endgroup$
– Jack
yesterday
$begingroup$
The spell says "instantly transports". Of course it could be houseruled otherwise, but doesn't that "instantly" contradict the Star Trek style?
$endgroup$
– Jack
yesterday
2
2
$begingroup$
The combat rules don't distinguish lengths of time shorter than a few seconds.
$endgroup$
– Mark Wells
yesterday
$begingroup$
The combat rules don't distinguish lengths of time shorter than a few seconds.
$endgroup$
– Mark Wells
yesterday
$begingroup$
Another factor to consider is the physical orientation of the attackers when they arrive on scene. Do they all appear facing the correct direction to immediately strike against the defenders, or could they show up facing the wrong way, possibly giving the defenders an opportunity to take action before the attackers can get turned around? How does the definition of Teleport handle that?
$endgroup$
– Monty Harder
yesterday
$begingroup$
Another factor to consider is the physical orientation of the attackers when they arrive on scene. Do they all appear facing the correct direction to immediately strike against the defenders, or could they show up facing the wrong way, possibly giving the defenders an opportunity to take action before the attackers can get turned around? How does the definition of Teleport handle that?
$endgroup$
– Monty Harder
yesterday
3
3
$begingroup$
I don't think you can directly compare teleporting in to suddenly becoming visible, because mechanically, invisibility ends only right after the first aggressive act, whereas when you arrive via teleportation, you have just cast a spell can cannot act again immediately, so it makes sense to roll initiative with everyone else.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
yesterday
$begingroup$
I don't think you can directly compare teleporting in to suddenly becoming visible, because mechanically, invisibility ends only right after the first aggressive act, whereas when you arrive via teleportation, you have just cast a spell can cannot act again immediately, so it makes sense to roll initiative with everyone else.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
yesterday
$begingroup$
@RyanThompson Also with invisibility, you can see what you are stabbing before you become visible, and get into back-stabbing range :3
$endgroup$
– Tezra
yesterday
$begingroup$
@RyanThompson Also with invisibility, you can see what you are stabbing before you become visible, and get into back-stabbing range :3
$endgroup$
– Tezra
yesterday
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
In general, Combat starts as soon as an attacker has a target. When Teleport is cast, no one on either side knows where the others are, so no one has a target. (If you somehow know where the enemies exact position is before the teleport, say with binoculars while overlooking the enemy, then you are in a surprise round with everyone but the caster readying an action to attack their target once the teleport is resolved.)
After the teleport, everyone has to acquire a target. If you teleported into the open, combat starts and no one is surprised (everyone notices everyone at the same time). If you teleport into an empty tent or very dark corner however, the party can attempt a stealth check to begin their attack with surprise (The party notices them, but the enemy still needs to notice the party).
Note that in any way this plays out, effectively the teleporter casts on turn 1, which will play out as a normal round like the party where performing an ambush by foot. (The Teleport just makes it easier to close the distance without being noticed)
I also want to note that no matter how the DM rules on this first round, as long as the party planned the ambush right (during meal time or night watch); that the enemy will also have to spend time getting their armour/weapons or fight without them. So the best benefit here is catching the enemy with their pants down rather than by surprise.
answered yesterday
TezraTezra
990317
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In general, Combat starts as soon as an attacker has a target. When Teleport is cast, no one on either side knows where the others are, so no one has a target. (If you somehow know where the enemies exact position is before the teleport, say with binoculars while overlooking the enemy, then you are in a surprise round with everyone but the caster readying an action to attack their target once the teleport is resolved.)
After the teleport, everyone has to acquire a target. If you teleported into the open, combat starts and no one is surprised (everyone notices everyone at the same time). If you teleport into an empty tent or very dark corner however, the party can attempt a stealth check to begin their attack with surprise (The party notices them, but the enemy still needs to notice the party).
Note that in any way this plays out, effectively the teleporter casts on turn 1, which will play out as a normal round like the party where performing an ambush by foot. (The Teleport just makes it easier to close the distance without being noticed)
I also want to note that no matter how the DM rules on this first round, as long as the party planned the ambush right (during meal time or night watch); that the enemy will also have to spend time getting their armour/weapons or fight without them. So the best benefit here is catching the enemy with their pants down rather than by surprise.
answered yesterday
TezraTezra
990317
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In general, Combat starts as soon as an attacker has a target. When Teleport is cast, no one on either side knows where the others are, so no one has a target. (If you somehow know where the enemies exact position is before the teleport, say with binoculars while overlooking the enemy, then you are in a surprise round with everyone but the caster readying an action to attack their target once the teleport is resolved.)
After the teleport, everyone has to acquire a target. If you teleported into the open, combat starts and no one is surprised (everyone notices everyone at the same time). If you teleport into an empty tent or very dark corner however, the party can attempt a stealth check to begin their attack with surprise (The party notices them, but the enemy still needs to notice the party).
Note that in any way this plays out, effectively the teleporter casts on turn 1, which will play out as a normal round like the party where performing an ambush by foot. (The Teleport just makes it easier to close the distance without being noticed)
I also want to note that no matter how the DM rules on this first round, as long as the party planned the ambush right (during meal time or night watch); that the enemy will also have to spend time getting their armour/weapons or fight without them. So the best benefit here is catching the enemy with their pants down rather than by surprise.
answered yesterday
TezraTezra
990317
$endgroup$
In general, Combat starts as soon as an attacker has a target. When Teleport is cast, no one on either side knows where the others are, so no one has a target. (If you somehow know where the enemies exact position is before the teleport, say with binoculars while overlooking the enemy, then you are in a surprise round with everyone but the caster readying an action to attack their target once the teleport is resolved.)
After the teleport, everyone has to acquire a target. If you teleported into the open, combat starts and no one is surprised (everyone notices everyone at the same time). If you teleport into an empty tent or very dark corner however, the party can attempt a stealth check to begin their attack with surprise (The party notices them, but the enemy still needs to notice the party).
Note that in any way this plays out, effectively the teleporter casts on turn 1, which will play out as a normal round like the party where performing an ambush by foot. (The Teleport just makes it easier to close the distance without being noticed)
I also want to note that no matter how the DM rules on this first round, as long as the party planned the ambush right (during meal time or night watch); that the enemy will also have to spend time getting their armour/weapons or fight without them. So the best benefit here is catching the enemy with their pants down rather than by surprise.
answered yesterday
TezraTezra
990317
answered yesterday
TezraTezra
990317
answered yesterday
TezraTezra
990317
answered yesterday
TezraTezra
990317
990317
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The Teleport spell happens before initiative is rolled
You don't know whether combat is going to occur until the effects of the Teleport spell are resolved. Unless there is a permanent teleportation circle at the ambush location or they have an 'associated object' from where they want to teleport to, there is a chance that the players will land 'Off Target' or in a 'Similar Area' rather than the intended location (Teleport spell, PHB pg 281). As a DM, you'll have to consider how well they know the area they are trying to teleport to in order to determine their chances of teleporting to the correct location.
The players can be prepared to fight right after teleporting and I would reward them for the tactic by having the enemy be surprised.
edited yesterday
V2Blast
26.6k591162
answered yesterday
CertainlyNotCertainlyNot
1
New contributor
CertainlyNot is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Welcome! Please take the tour as an introduction to the site and check the help center for further guidance. This answer seems to tangentially touch on the question but is discussing things that aren't exactly the question asked. The contribution is still appreciated but this does not really seem to be answering the question beyond the title.
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The Teleport spell happens before initiative is rolled
You don't know whether combat is going to occur until the effects of the Teleport spell are resolved. Unless there is a permanent teleportation circle at the ambush location or they have an 'associated object' from where they want to teleport to, there is a chance that the players will land 'Off Target' or in a 'Similar Area' rather than the intended location (Teleport spell, PHB pg 281). As a DM, you'll have to consider how well they know the area they are trying to teleport to in order to determine their chances of teleporting to the correct location.
The players can be prepared to fight right after teleporting and I would reward them for the tactic by having the enemy be surprised.
edited yesterday
V2Blast
26.6k591162
answered yesterday
CertainlyNotCertainlyNot
1
New contributor
CertainlyNot is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Welcome! Please take the tour as an introduction to the site and check the help center for further guidance. This answer seems to tangentially touch on the question but is discussing things that aren't exactly the question asked. The contribution is still appreciated but this does not really seem to be answering the question beyond the title.
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The Teleport spell happens before initiative is rolled
You don't know whether combat is going to occur until the effects of the Teleport spell are resolved. Unless there is a permanent teleportation circle at the ambush location or they have an 'associated object' from where they want to teleport to, there is a chance that the players will land 'Off Target' or in a 'Similar Area' rather than the intended location (Teleport spell, PHB pg 281). As a DM, you'll have to consider how well they know the area they are trying to teleport to in order to determine their chances of teleporting to the correct location.
The players can be prepared to fight right after teleporting and I would reward them for the tactic by having the enemy be surprised.
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The Teleport spell happens before initiative is rolled
You don't know whether combat is going to occur until the effects of the Teleport spell are resolved. Unless there is a permanent teleportation circle at the ambush location or they have an 'associated object' from where they want to teleport to, there is a chance that the players will land 'Off Target' or in a 'Similar Area' rather than the intended location (Teleport spell, PHB pg 281). As a DM, you'll have to consider how well they know the area they are trying to teleport to in order to determine their chances of teleporting to the correct location.
The players can be prepared to fight right after teleporting and I would reward them for the tactic by having the enemy be surprised.
edited yesterday
V2Blast
26.6k591162
answered yesterday
CertainlyNotCertainlyNot
1
New contributor
CertainlyNot is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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edited yesterday
V2Blast
26.6k591162
edited yesterday
V2Blast
26.6k591162
edited yesterday
V2Blast
26.6k591162
26.6k591162
answered yesterday
CertainlyNotCertainlyNot
1
New contributor
CertainlyNot is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered yesterday
CertainlyNotCertainlyNot
1
answered yesterday
CertainlyNotCertainlyNot
1
1
New contributor
CertainlyNot is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
CertainlyNot is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
CertainlyNot is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
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Welcome! Please take the tour as an introduction to the site and check the help center for further guidance. This answer seems to tangentially touch on the question but is discussing things that aren't exactly the question asked. The contribution is still appreciated but this does not really seem to be answering the question beyond the title.
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– Sdjz
yesterday
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Welcome! Please take the tour as an introduction to the site and check the help center for further guidance. This answer seems to tangentially touch on the question but is discussing things that aren't exactly the question asked. The contribution is still appreciated but this does not really seem to be answering the question beyond the title.
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
yesterday
1
1
$begingroup$
Welcome! Please take the tour as an introduction to the site and check the help center for further guidance. This answer seems to tangentially touch on the question but is discussing things that aren't exactly the question asked. The contribution is still appreciated but this does not really seem to be answering the question beyond the title.
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
yesterday
$begingroup$
Welcome! Please take the tour as an introduction to the site and check the help center for further guidance. This answer seems to tangentially touch on the question but is discussing things that aren't exactly the question asked. The contribution is still appreciated but this does not really seem to be answering the question beyond the title.
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
yesterday
add a comment |
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Related: What happens when initiative allows a player to act before the player that started the combat?
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– Rubiksmoose
yesterday