Any stored/leased 737s that could substitute for grounded MAXs? Announcing the arrival of...
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Any stored/leased 737s that could substitute for grounded MAXs?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)Could you help me identify a sound that began before pushback?Why aren't 737s or A320s commonly used for transatlantic flights?
$begingroup$
The 737 MAX was introduced relatively recently. I would have assumed they were replacing at least some older 737 models in operation with the major airlines that took them (eg Southwest, American, United, in the US). Did those airlines immediately sell off their older planes as the new ones joined their fleet? I see reports of huge flight cancellations from lack of the new aircraft. Since they have common type ratings with the earlier 737, what happened to the older planes that none of them can be pulled from storage or dry leased and put back into service? Surely this grounding is long enough to be worth the transient expense?
boeing-737 fleet
asked 5 hours ago
Phil MillerPhil Miller
1086
New contributor
Phil Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
The 737 MAX was introduced relatively recently. I would have assumed they were replacing at least some older 737 models in operation with the major airlines that took them (eg Southwest, American, United, in the US). Did those airlines immediately sell off their older planes as the new ones joined their fleet? I see reports of huge flight cancellations from lack of the new aircraft. Since they have common type ratings with the earlier 737, what happened to the older planes that none of them can be pulled from storage or dry leased and put back into service? Surely this grounding is long enough to be worth the transient expense?
boeing-737 fleet
asked 5 hours ago
Phil MillerPhil Miller
1086
New contributor
Phil Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The 737 MAX was introduced relatively recently. I would have assumed they were replacing at least some older 737 models in operation with the major airlines that took them (eg Southwest, American, United, in the US). Did those airlines immediately sell off their older planes as the new ones joined their fleet? I see reports of huge flight cancellations from lack of the new aircraft. Since they have common type ratings with the earlier 737, what happened to the older planes that none of them can be pulled from storage or dry leased and put back into service? Surely this grounding is long enough to be worth the transient expense?
boeing-737 fleet
asked 5 hours ago
Phil MillerPhil Miller
1086
New contributor
Phil Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
The 737 MAX was introduced relatively recently. I would have assumed they were replacing at least some older 737 models in operation with the major airlines that took them (eg Southwest, American, United, in the US). Did those airlines immediately sell off their older planes as the new ones joined their fleet? I see reports of huge flight cancellations from lack of the new aircraft. Since they have common type ratings with the earlier 737, what happened to the older planes that none of them can be pulled from storage or dry leased and put back into service? Surely this grounding is long enough to be worth the transient expense?
boeing-737 fleet
boeing-737 fleet
asked 5 hours ago
Phil MillerPhil Miller
1086
New contributor
Phil Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 5 hours ago
Phil MillerPhil Miller
1086
New contributor
Phil Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 5 hours ago
Phil MillerPhil Miller
1086
New contributor
Phil Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 5 hours ago
Phil MillerPhil Miller
1086
asked 5 hours ago
Phil MillerPhil Miller
1086
1086
New contributor
Phil Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Phil Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Phil Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
It really isn't 1 new aircraft = 1 mothballed aircraft. Most of the 737 MAX aircraft were fleet expansions (for US carriers). The older aircraft get retired when they aren't economical to fly anymore, and even then a retired aircraft is often sold either to a scrap yard or to a lower budget operator. In order to bring an aircraft back into service they may have to go through C or D checks before they can be considered airworthy again (because old aircraft are often retired at a D-Check when it needs a major check).
Airlines need to schedule C/D checks out months in advance, each aircraft costing millions to go through the check and a month or more of downtime. There is only limited space available to do these checks, so even if they wanted to bring 10 aircraft back into service, it may take 6 months and cost $20-40 million. It's cheaper to cancel the flights.
answered 4 hours ago
Ron BeyerRon Beyer
22.7k282103
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The main problem is in the United States, the 737 Classics are banned beginning December 2017, due to fuel tank interting requirements. In particular, Southwest's Classic replacement schedule was driven by this, their last flight was in October 2017. They have a number of parked Classics, but they can't be operated in the US. On the other hand, the 737NG is new enough that there isn't a significant excess fleet.
Due to the TWA Flight 800 explosion, FAA required retrofit of fuel tank inerting on most aircraft with center tanks. This system purges some center tank oxygen with nitrogen, in order to reduce the risk of explosion if there's a spark. EASA did not require retrofit, and the MD-80 is exempt (no heat sources by its tank).
While a retrofit was developed for the 737 Classic, the cost of the system, coupled with the age of the aircraft, and the 737 skin issues, meant that all the big US carriers chose to retire remaining 737 Classics as of the deadline, rather than retrofit.
answered 3 hours ago
user71659user71659
3,8851026
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks. To be clear, 737 Classic are the -4/5/600 set, right?
$endgroup$
– Phil Miller
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@PhilMiller The 737 "Classic" is the 300/400/500 series.The -600/700/800/900 is the NG.
$endgroup$
– Ron Beyer
2 hours ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
It really isn't 1 new aircraft = 1 mothballed aircraft. Most of the 737 MAX aircraft were fleet expansions (for US carriers). The older aircraft get retired when they aren't economical to fly anymore, and even then a retired aircraft is often sold either to a scrap yard or to a lower budget operator. In order to bring an aircraft back into service they may have to go through C or D checks before they can be considered airworthy again (because old aircraft are often retired at a D-Check when it needs a major check).
Airlines need to schedule C/D checks out months in advance, each aircraft costing millions to go through the check and a month or more of downtime. There is only limited space available to do these checks, so even if they wanted to bring 10 aircraft back into service, it may take 6 months and cost $20-40 million. It's cheaper to cancel the flights.
answered 4 hours ago
Ron BeyerRon Beyer
22.7k282103
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It really isn't 1 new aircraft = 1 mothballed aircraft. Most of the 737 MAX aircraft were fleet expansions (for US carriers). The older aircraft get retired when they aren't economical to fly anymore, and even then a retired aircraft is often sold either to a scrap yard or to a lower budget operator. In order to bring an aircraft back into service they may have to go through C or D checks before they can be considered airworthy again (because old aircraft are often retired at a D-Check when it needs a major check).
Airlines need to schedule C/D checks out months in advance, each aircraft costing millions to go through the check and a month or more of downtime. There is only limited space available to do these checks, so even if they wanted to bring 10 aircraft back into service, it may take 6 months and cost $20-40 million. It's cheaper to cancel the flights.
answered 4 hours ago
Ron BeyerRon Beyer
22.7k282103
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It really isn't 1 new aircraft = 1 mothballed aircraft. Most of the 737 MAX aircraft were fleet expansions (for US carriers). The older aircraft get retired when they aren't economical to fly anymore, and even then a retired aircraft is often sold either to a scrap yard or to a lower budget operator. In order to bring an aircraft back into service they may have to go through C or D checks before they can be considered airworthy again (because old aircraft are often retired at a D-Check when it needs a major check).
Airlines need to schedule C/D checks out months in advance, each aircraft costing millions to go through the check and a month or more of downtime. There is only limited space available to do these checks, so even if they wanted to bring 10 aircraft back into service, it may take 6 months and cost $20-40 million. It's cheaper to cancel the flights.
answered 4 hours ago
Ron BeyerRon Beyer
22.7k282103
$endgroup$
It really isn't 1 new aircraft = 1 mothballed aircraft. Most of the 737 MAX aircraft were fleet expansions (for US carriers). The older aircraft get retired when they aren't economical to fly anymore, and even then a retired aircraft is often sold either to a scrap yard or to a lower budget operator. In order to bring an aircraft back into service they may have to go through C or D checks before they can be considered airworthy again (because old aircraft are often retired at a D-Check when it needs a major check).
Airlines need to schedule C/D checks out months in advance, each aircraft costing millions to go through the check and a month or more of downtime. There is only limited space available to do these checks, so even if they wanted to bring 10 aircraft back into service, it may take 6 months and cost $20-40 million. It's cheaper to cancel the flights.
answered 4 hours ago
Ron BeyerRon Beyer
22.7k282103
answered 4 hours ago
Ron BeyerRon Beyer
22.7k282103
answered 4 hours ago
Ron BeyerRon Beyer
22.7k282103
answered 4 hours ago
Ron BeyerRon Beyer
22.7k282103
22.7k282103
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The main problem is in the United States, the 737 Classics are banned beginning December 2017, due to fuel tank interting requirements. In particular, Southwest's Classic replacement schedule was driven by this, their last flight was in October 2017. They have a number of parked Classics, but they can't be operated in the US. On the other hand, the 737NG is new enough that there isn't a significant excess fleet.
Due to the TWA Flight 800 explosion, FAA required retrofit of fuel tank inerting on most aircraft with center tanks. This system purges some center tank oxygen with nitrogen, in order to reduce the risk of explosion if there's a spark. EASA did not require retrofit, and the MD-80 is exempt (no heat sources by its tank).
While a retrofit was developed for the 737 Classic, the cost of the system, coupled with the age of the aircraft, and the 737 skin issues, meant that all the big US carriers chose to retire remaining 737 Classics as of the deadline, rather than retrofit.
answered 3 hours ago
user71659user71659
3,8851026
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks. To be clear, 737 Classic are the -4/5/600 set, right?
$endgroup$
– Phil Miller
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@PhilMiller The 737 "Classic" is the 300/400/500 series.The -600/700/800/900 is the NG.
$endgroup$
– Ron Beyer
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The main problem is in the United States, the 737 Classics are banned beginning December 2017, due to fuel tank interting requirements. In particular, Southwest's Classic replacement schedule was driven by this, their last flight was in October 2017. They have a number of parked Classics, but they can't be operated in the US. On the other hand, the 737NG is new enough that there isn't a significant excess fleet.
Due to the TWA Flight 800 explosion, FAA required retrofit of fuel tank inerting on most aircraft with center tanks. This system purges some center tank oxygen with nitrogen, in order to reduce the risk of explosion if there's a spark. EASA did not require retrofit, and the MD-80 is exempt (no heat sources by its tank).
While a retrofit was developed for the 737 Classic, the cost of the system, coupled with the age of the aircraft, and the 737 skin issues, meant that all the big US carriers chose to retire remaining 737 Classics as of the deadline, rather than retrofit.
answered 3 hours ago
user71659user71659
3,8851026
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks. To be clear, 737 Classic are the -4/5/600 set, right?
$endgroup$
– Phil Miller
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@PhilMiller The 737 "Classic" is the 300/400/500 series.The -600/700/800/900 is the NG.
$endgroup$
– Ron Beyer
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The main problem is in the United States, the 737 Classics are banned beginning December 2017, due to fuel tank interting requirements. In particular, Southwest's Classic replacement schedule was driven by this, their last flight was in October 2017. They have a number of parked Classics, but they can't be operated in the US. On the other hand, the 737NG is new enough that there isn't a significant excess fleet.
Due to the TWA Flight 800 explosion, FAA required retrofit of fuel tank inerting on most aircraft with center tanks. This system purges some center tank oxygen with nitrogen, in order to reduce the risk of explosion if there's a spark. EASA did not require retrofit, and the MD-80 is exempt (no heat sources by its tank).
While a retrofit was developed for the 737 Classic, the cost of the system, coupled with the age of the aircraft, and the 737 skin issues, meant that all the big US carriers chose to retire remaining 737 Classics as of the deadline, rather than retrofit.
answered 3 hours ago
user71659user71659
3,8851026
$endgroup$
The main problem is in the United States, the 737 Classics are banned beginning December 2017, due to fuel tank interting requirements. In particular, Southwest's Classic replacement schedule was driven by this, their last flight was in October 2017. They have a number of parked Classics, but they can't be operated in the US. On the other hand, the 737NG is new enough that there isn't a significant excess fleet.
Due to the TWA Flight 800 explosion, FAA required retrofit of fuel tank inerting on most aircraft with center tanks. This system purges some center tank oxygen with nitrogen, in order to reduce the risk of explosion if there's a spark. EASA did not require retrofit, and the MD-80 is exempt (no heat sources by its tank).
While a retrofit was developed for the 737 Classic, the cost of the system, coupled with the age of the aircraft, and the 737 skin issues, meant that all the big US carriers chose to retire remaining 737 Classics as of the deadline, rather than retrofit.
answered 3 hours ago
user71659user71659
3,8851026
edited 3 hours ago
answered 3 hours ago
user71659user71659
3,8851026
answered 3 hours ago
user71659user71659
3,8851026
answered 3 hours ago
user71659user71659
3,8851026
3,8851026
$begingroup$
Thanks. To be clear, 737 Classic are the -4/5/600 set, right?
$endgroup$
– Phil Miller
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@PhilMiller The 737 "Classic" is the 300/400/500 series.The -600/700/800/900 is the NG.
$endgroup$
– Ron Beyer
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thanks. To be clear, 737 Classic are the -4/5/600 set, right?
$endgroup$
– Phil Miller
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@PhilMiller The 737 "Classic" is the 300/400/500 series.The -600/700/800/900 is the NG.
$endgroup$
– Ron Beyer
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thanks. To be clear, 737 Classic are the -4/5/600 set, right?
$endgroup$
– Phil Miller
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thanks. To be clear, 737 Classic are the -4/5/600 set, right?
$endgroup$
– Phil Miller
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@PhilMiller The 737 "Classic" is the 300/400/500 series.The -600/700/800/900 is the NG.
$endgroup$
– Ron Beyer
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@PhilMiller The 737 "Classic" is the 300/400/500 series.The -600/700/800/900 is the NG.
$endgroup$
– Ron Beyer
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Phil Miller is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Phil Miller is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Phil Miller is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Phil Miller is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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