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Proprietary vs open-source encryption/security software


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1















I just had an argument with colleagues about the usefulness of Microsoft BitLocker drive encryption for keeping representatives of the state (FBI etc.) out of data. They were convinced that vendors of proprietary software have backdoors in their algorithms which can be used in severe cases, i.e. suspicion of terrorism etc.



The alternative is of course TrueCrypt, because in theory, the code is open and can be reviewed by the public. In practice, even though I know the programming language, I do not have enough knowledge of the algorithm to be able to spot a possible backdoor or a feature which might give an advantage to a deliberate cryptographic attack. Does anyone know if the code has been reviewed by a trustworthy 3rd party? And if so, how is their trustworthyness established?



So, to come to the general questions:




  1. How would a company which really, really wants to keep their files completely secret decide upon their cryptographic solution? They cannot be 100% sure that BitLocker is safe, can they? However, would they in practice be able to make sure that TrueCrypt is?


  2. How would you estimate the chance that Microsoft and similar companies work with government agencies and give them an advantage to breaking their security so that it doesn't take 1000s of years to break (is that how long BitLocker should take)?











share|improve this question




















  • 3





    "I know the programming language, I do not have enough knowledge of the algorithm to be able to spot a possible backdoor or a feature which might give an advantage to a deliberate cryptographic attack." Not a problem because there are probably hundreds of people around the world with that knowledge who are doing this for you.

    – Linker3000
    Feb 15 '11 at 12:01






  • 3





    Have you heard of the "Underhanded C contest"? If there was a deliberate falsification in it, there is no guarantee that anyone would spot it.

    – Felix Dombek
    Feb 15 '11 at 12:10
















1















I just had an argument with colleagues about the usefulness of Microsoft BitLocker drive encryption for keeping representatives of the state (FBI etc.) out of data. They were convinced that vendors of proprietary software have backdoors in their algorithms which can be used in severe cases, i.e. suspicion of terrorism etc.



The alternative is of course TrueCrypt, because in theory, the code is open and can be reviewed by the public. In practice, even though I know the programming language, I do not have enough knowledge of the algorithm to be able to spot a possible backdoor or a feature which might give an advantage to a deliberate cryptographic attack. Does anyone know if the code has been reviewed by a trustworthy 3rd party? And if so, how is their trustworthyness established?



So, to come to the general questions:




  1. How would a company which really, really wants to keep their files completely secret decide upon their cryptographic solution? They cannot be 100% sure that BitLocker is safe, can they? However, would they in practice be able to make sure that TrueCrypt is?


  2. How would you estimate the chance that Microsoft and similar companies work with government agencies and give them an advantage to breaking their security so that it doesn't take 1000s of years to break (is that how long BitLocker should take)?











share|improve this question




















  • 3





    "I know the programming language, I do not have enough knowledge of the algorithm to be able to spot a possible backdoor or a feature which might give an advantage to a deliberate cryptographic attack." Not a problem because there are probably hundreds of people around the world with that knowledge who are doing this for you.

    – Linker3000
    Feb 15 '11 at 12:01






  • 3





    Have you heard of the "Underhanded C contest"? If there was a deliberate falsification in it, there is no guarantee that anyone would spot it.

    – Felix Dombek
    Feb 15 '11 at 12:10














1












1








1








I just had an argument with colleagues about the usefulness of Microsoft BitLocker drive encryption for keeping representatives of the state (FBI etc.) out of data. They were convinced that vendors of proprietary software have backdoors in their algorithms which can be used in severe cases, i.e. suspicion of terrorism etc.



The alternative is of course TrueCrypt, because in theory, the code is open and can be reviewed by the public. In practice, even though I know the programming language, I do not have enough knowledge of the algorithm to be able to spot a possible backdoor or a feature which might give an advantage to a deliberate cryptographic attack. Does anyone know if the code has been reviewed by a trustworthy 3rd party? And if so, how is their trustworthyness established?



So, to come to the general questions:




  1. How would a company which really, really wants to keep their files completely secret decide upon their cryptographic solution? They cannot be 100% sure that BitLocker is safe, can they? However, would they in practice be able to make sure that TrueCrypt is?


  2. How would you estimate the chance that Microsoft and similar companies work with government agencies and give them an advantage to breaking their security so that it doesn't take 1000s of years to break (is that how long BitLocker should take)?











share|improve this question
















I just had an argument with colleagues about the usefulness of Microsoft BitLocker drive encryption for keeping representatives of the state (FBI etc.) out of data. They were convinced that vendors of proprietary software have backdoors in their algorithms which can be used in severe cases, i.e. suspicion of terrorism etc.



The alternative is of course TrueCrypt, because in theory, the code is open and can be reviewed by the public. In practice, even though I know the programming language, I do not have enough knowledge of the algorithm to be able to spot a possible backdoor or a feature which might give an advantage to a deliberate cryptographic attack. Does anyone know if the code has been reviewed by a trustworthy 3rd party? And if so, how is their trustworthyness established?



So, to come to the general questions:




  1. How would a company which really, really wants to keep their files completely secret decide upon their cryptographic solution? They cannot be 100% sure that BitLocker is safe, can they? However, would they in practice be able to make sure that TrueCrypt is?


  2. How would you estimate the chance that Microsoft and similar companies work with government agencies and give them an advantage to breaking their security so that it doesn't take 1000s of years to break (is that how long BitLocker should take)?








security open-source truecrypt bitlocker proprietary






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Feb 15 '11 at 18:23







Felix Dombek

















asked Feb 15 '11 at 11:44









Felix DombekFelix Dombek

93661545




93661545








  • 3





    "I know the programming language, I do not have enough knowledge of the algorithm to be able to spot a possible backdoor or a feature which might give an advantage to a deliberate cryptographic attack." Not a problem because there are probably hundreds of people around the world with that knowledge who are doing this for you.

    – Linker3000
    Feb 15 '11 at 12:01






  • 3





    Have you heard of the "Underhanded C contest"? If there was a deliberate falsification in it, there is no guarantee that anyone would spot it.

    – Felix Dombek
    Feb 15 '11 at 12:10














  • 3





    "I know the programming language, I do not have enough knowledge of the algorithm to be able to spot a possible backdoor or a feature which might give an advantage to a deliberate cryptographic attack." Not a problem because there are probably hundreds of people around the world with that knowledge who are doing this for you.

    – Linker3000
    Feb 15 '11 at 12:01






  • 3





    Have you heard of the "Underhanded C contest"? If there was a deliberate falsification in it, there is no guarantee that anyone would spot it.

    – Felix Dombek
    Feb 15 '11 at 12:10








3




3





"I know the programming language, I do not have enough knowledge of the algorithm to be able to spot a possible backdoor or a feature which might give an advantage to a deliberate cryptographic attack." Not a problem because there are probably hundreds of people around the world with that knowledge who are doing this for you.

– Linker3000
Feb 15 '11 at 12:01





"I know the programming language, I do not have enough knowledge of the algorithm to be able to spot a possible backdoor or a feature which might give an advantage to a deliberate cryptographic attack." Not a problem because there are probably hundreds of people around the world with that knowledge who are doing this for you.

– Linker3000
Feb 15 '11 at 12:01




3




3





Have you heard of the "Underhanded C contest"? If there was a deliberate falsification in it, there is no guarantee that anyone would spot it.

– Felix Dombek
Feb 15 '11 at 12:10





Have you heard of the "Underhanded C contest"? If there was a deliberate falsification in it, there is no guarantee that anyone would spot it.

– Felix Dombek
Feb 15 '11 at 12:10










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















5














Microsoft have pretty much stated that there is no backdoor in Bitlocker, and I don't think it is in their best interest to as the backlash would be huge.



The leak of the Microsoft COFFEE tools basically packages a lot of methods already known to the security industry in an easy to use product for law enforcement, but no where is a hack/backdoor for Bitlocker.



I am not saying it doesn't exist, but I find it highly unlikely.



There is nothing stopping you for using a Bitlocker drive and then having a Truecrypt encrypted file inside it!



I think the most likely way encryption like this will be broken is through pure brute force through super computer power.






share|improve this answer
























  • This is the correct answer. If Microsoft stated that there is no backdoor, how should there be one? Impossible.

    – Jonas Stein
    31 mins ago



















4














To answer your first question, the company could:




  • Create their own encryption system (very difficult)

  • Hire a consultant or trusted/legally liable 3rd party to review publicly available code

  • Sign up for Microsoft's SharedSource program and review Microsoft's code

  • Use multiple layers of encryption (e.g. Bitlocker and Truecrypt together)


I leave answering the second question to someone more knowledgeable about BitLocker.






share|improve this answer































    1














    I find it highly unlikely that there is a backdoor to Bitlocker. Considering how much scrutiny Microsoft is always under, there are plenty of great programmers out there that are capable to sniffing out Microsoft's attempts at a backdoor. On top of that there are plenty of high profile clients that would leave Microsoft.



    It just sounds like an overall bad business plan.






    share|improve this answer



















    • 4





      Microsoft is also a US corporation with a lot of government contracts - it would find it very difficult to turn down a request for special access.

      – Martin Beckett
      Feb 15 '11 at 23:30











    • Your answer assumes that "high profile clients" buy good products. Is this always true?

      – Jonas Stein
      27 mins ago



















    0














    1) If someone wants cryptography, he does not look for an closed source tool with unknown code. What is the reason to a trust company selling you a program without code?



    2) You should not blame Microsoft for it. You can simplify the question: If the company x is forced by law, or by the secret service to implement backdoors, will it implement them, or not?



    You may be interested in the literature by Bruce Schneier on this topic for further reading. Yes, there were audits on Truecrypt. However trusted software does not help a lot, if you can not trust your hardware.






    share|improve this answer

























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      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes








      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      5














      Microsoft have pretty much stated that there is no backdoor in Bitlocker, and I don't think it is in their best interest to as the backlash would be huge.



      The leak of the Microsoft COFFEE tools basically packages a lot of methods already known to the security industry in an easy to use product for law enforcement, but no where is a hack/backdoor for Bitlocker.



      I am not saying it doesn't exist, but I find it highly unlikely.



      There is nothing stopping you for using a Bitlocker drive and then having a Truecrypt encrypted file inside it!



      I think the most likely way encryption like this will be broken is through pure brute force through super computer power.






      share|improve this answer
























      • This is the correct answer. If Microsoft stated that there is no backdoor, how should there be one? Impossible.

        – Jonas Stein
        31 mins ago
















      5














      Microsoft have pretty much stated that there is no backdoor in Bitlocker, and I don't think it is in their best interest to as the backlash would be huge.



      The leak of the Microsoft COFFEE tools basically packages a lot of methods already known to the security industry in an easy to use product for law enforcement, but no where is a hack/backdoor for Bitlocker.



      I am not saying it doesn't exist, but I find it highly unlikely.



      There is nothing stopping you for using a Bitlocker drive and then having a Truecrypt encrypted file inside it!



      I think the most likely way encryption like this will be broken is through pure brute force through super computer power.






      share|improve this answer
























      • This is the correct answer. If Microsoft stated that there is no backdoor, how should there be one? Impossible.

        – Jonas Stein
        31 mins ago














      5












      5








      5







      Microsoft have pretty much stated that there is no backdoor in Bitlocker, and I don't think it is in their best interest to as the backlash would be huge.



      The leak of the Microsoft COFFEE tools basically packages a lot of methods already known to the security industry in an easy to use product for law enforcement, but no where is a hack/backdoor for Bitlocker.



      I am not saying it doesn't exist, but I find it highly unlikely.



      There is nothing stopping you for using a Bitlocker drive and then having a Truecrypt encrypted file inside it!



      I think the most likely way encryption like this will be broken is through pure brute force through super computer power.






      share|improve this answer













      Microsoft have pretty much stated that there is no backdoor in Bitlocker, and I don't think it is in their best interest to as the backlash would be huge.



      The leak of the Microsoft COFFEE tools basically packages a lot of methods already known to the security industry in an easy to use product for law enforcement, but no where is a hack/backdoor for Bitlocker.



      I am not saying it doesn't exist, but I find it highly unlikely.



      There is nothing stopping you for using a Bitlocker drive and then having a Truecrypt encrypted file inside it!



      I think the most likely way encryption like this will be broken is through pure brute force through super computer power.







      share|improve this answer












      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer










      answered Feb 15 '11 at 12:41









      William HilsumWilliam Hilsum

      108k16161253




      108k16161253













      • This is the correct answer. If Microsoft stated that there is no backdoor, how should there be one? Impossible.

        – Jonas Stein
        31 mins ago



















      • This is the correct answer. If Microsoft stated that there is no backdoor, how should there be one? Impossible.

        – Jonas Stein
        31 mins ago

















      This is the correct answer. If Microsoft stated that there is no backdoor, how should there be one? Impossible.

      – Jonas Stein
      31 mins ago





      This is the correct answer. If Microsoft stated that there is no backdoor, how should there be one? Impossible.

      – Jonas Stein
      31 mins ago













      4














      To answer your first question, the company could:




      • Create their own encryption system (very difficult)

      • Hire a consultant or trusted/legally liable 3rd party to review publicly available code

      • Sign up for Microsoft's SharedSource program and review Microsoft's code

      • Use multiple layers of encryption (e.g. Bitlocker and Truecrypt together)


      I leave answering the second question to someone more knowledgeable about BitLocker.






      share|improve this answer




























        4














        To answer your first question, the company could:




        • Create their own encryption system (very difficult)

        • Hire a consultant or trusted/legally liable 3rd party to review publicly available code

        • Sign up for Microsoft's SharedSource program and review Microsoft's code

        • Use multiple layers of encryption (e.g. Bitlocker and Truecrypt together)


        I leave answering the second question to someone more knowledgeable about BitLocker.






        share|improve this answer


























          4












          4








          4







          To answer your first question, the company could:




          • Create their own encryption system (very difficult)

          • Hire a consultant or trusted/legally liable 3rd party to review publicly available code

          • Sign up for Microsoft's SharedSource program and review Microsoft's code

          • Use multiple layers of encryption (e.g. Bitlocker and Truecrypt together)


          I leave answering the second question to someone more knowledgeable about BitLocker.






          share|improve this answer













          To answer your first question, the company could:




          • Create their own encryption system (very difficult)

          • Hire a consultant or trusted/legally liable 3rd party to review publicly available code

          • Sign up for Microsoft's SharedSource program and review Microsoft's code

          • Use multiple layers of encryption (e.g. Bitlocker and Truecrypt together)


          I leave answering the second question to someone more knowledgeable about BitLocker.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered Feb 15 '11 at 12:16









          LawrenceCLawrenceC

          59.4k11103181




          59.4k11103181























              1














              I find it highly unlikely that there is a backdoor to Bitlocker. Considering how much scrutiny Microsoft is always under, there are plenty of great programmers out there that are capable to sniffing out Microsoft's attempts at a backdoor. On top of that there are plenty of high profile clients that would leave Microsoft.



              It just sounds like an overall bad business plan.






              share|improve this answer



















              • 4





                Microsoft is also a US corporation with a lot of government contracts - it would find it very difficult to turn down a request for special access.

                – Martin Beckett
                Feb 15 '11 at 23:30











              • Your answer assumes that "high profile clients" buy good products. Is this always true?

                – Jonas Stein
                27 mins ago
















              1














              I find it highly unlikely that there is a backdoor to Bitlocker. Considering how much scrutiny Microsoft is always under, there are plenty of great programmers out there that are capable to sniffing out Microsoft's attempts at a backdoor. On top of that there are plenty of high profile clients that would leave Microsoft.



              It just sounds like an overall bad business plan.






              share|improve this answer



















              • 4





                Microsoft is also a US corporation with a lot of government contracts - it would find it very difficult to turn down a request for special access.

                – Martin Beckett
                Feb 15 '11 at 23:30











              • Your answer assumes that "high profile clients" buy good products. Is this always true?

                – Jonas Stein
                27 mins ago














              1












              1








              1







              I find it highly unlikely that there is a backdoor to Bitlocker. Considering how much scrutiny Microsoft is always under, there are plenty of great programmers out there that are capable to sniffing out Microsoft's attempts at a backdoor. On top of that there are plenty of high profile clients that would leave Microsoft.



              It just sounds like an overall bad business plan.






              share|improve this answer













              I find it highly unlikely that there is a backdoor to Bitlocker. Considering how much scrutiny Microsoft is always under, there are plenty of great programmers out there that are capable to sniffing out Microsoft's attempts at a backdoor. On top of that there are plenty of high profile clients that would leave Microsoft.



              It just sounds like an overall bad business plan.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered Feb 15 '11 at 13:10









              surfasbsurfasb

              20.7k34271




              20.7k34271








              • 4





                Microsoft is also a US corporation with a lot of government contracts - it would find it very difficult to turn down a request for special access.

                – Martin Beckett
                Feb 15 '11 at 23:30











              • Your answer assumes that "high profile clients" buy good products. Is this always true?

                – Jonas Stein
                27 mins ago














              • 4





                Microsoft is also a US corporation with a lot of government contracts - it would find it very difficult to turn down a request for special access.

                – Martin Beckett
                Feb 15 '11 at 23:30











              • Your answer assumes that "high profile clients" buy good products. Is this always true?

                – Jonas Stein
                27 mins ago








              4




              4





              Microsoft is also a US corporation with a lot of government contracts - it would find it very difficult to turn down a request for special access.

              – Martin Beckett
              Feb 15 '11 at 23:30





              Microsoft is also a US corporation with a lot of government contracts - it would find it very difficult to turn down a request for special access.

              – Martin Beckett
              Feb 15 '11 at 23:30













              Your answer assumes that "high profile clients" buy good products. Is this always true?

              – Jonas Stein
              27 mins ago





              Your answer assumes that "high profile clients" buy good products. Is this always true?

              – Jonas Stein
              27 mins ago











              0














              1) If someone wants cryptography, he does not look for an closed source tool with unknown code. What is the reason to a trust company selling you a program without code?



              2) You should not blame Microsoft for it. You can simplify the question: If the company x is forced by law, or by the secret service to implement backdoors, will it implement them, or not?



              You may be interested in the literature by Bruce Schneier on this topic for further reading. Yes, there were audits on Truecrypt. However trusted software does not help a lot, if you can not trust your hardware.






              share|improve this answer






























                0














                1) If someone wants cryptography, he does not look for an closed source tool with unknown code. What is the reason to a trust company selling you a program without code?



                2) You should not blame Microsoft for it. You can simplify the question: If the company x is forced by law, or by the secret service to implement backdoors, will it implement them, or not?



                You may be interested in the literature by Bruce Schneier on this topic for further reading. Yes, there were audits on Truecrypt. However trusted software does not help a lot, if you can not trust your hardware.






                share|improve this answer




























                  0












                  0








                  0







                  1) If someone wants cryptography, he does not look for an closed source tool with unknown code. What is the reason to a trust company selling you a program without code?



                  2) You should not blame Microsoft for it. You can simplify the question: If the company x is forced by law, or by the secret service to implement backdoors, will it implement them, or not?



                  You may be interested in the literature by Bruce Schneier on this topic for further reading. Yes, there were audits on Truecrypt. However trusted software does not help a lot, if you can not trust your hardware.






                  share|improve this answer















                  1) If someone wants cryptography, he does not look for an closed source tool with unknown code. What is the reason to a trust company selling you a program without code?



                  2) You should not blame Microsoft for it. You can simplify the question: If the company x is forced by law, or by the secret service to implement backdoors, will it implement them, or not?



                  You may be interested in the literature by Bruce Schneier on this topic for further reading. Yes, there were audits on Truecrypt. However trusted software does not help a lot, if you can not trust your hardware.







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited 21 mins ago

























                  answered 36 mins ago









                  Jonas SteinJonas Stein

                  4962824




                  4962824






























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