Is Sun brighter than what we actually see? The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results...

Would an alien lifeform be able to achieve space travel if lacking in vision?

Can withdrawing asylum be illegal?

"... to apply for a visa" or "... and applied for a visa"?

Is it ethical to upload a automatically generated paper to a non peer-reviewed site as part of a larger research?

What do I do when my TA workload is more than expected?

Is it ok to offer lower paid work as a trial period before negotiating for a full-time job?

How do spell lists change if the party levels up without taking a long rest?

Are there continuous functions who are the same in an interval but differ in at least one other point?

Simulating Exploding Dice

How to handle characters who are more educated than the author?

Is there a way to generate uniformly distributed points on a sphere from a fixed amount of random real numbers per point?

How did passengers keep warm on sail ships?

How to support a colleague who finds meetings extremely tiring?

Working through the single responsibility principle (SRP) in Python when calls are expensive

Is there a writing software that you can sort scenes like slides in PowerPoint?

Do warforged have souls?

Why don't hard Brexiteers insist on a hard border to prevent illegal immigration after Brexit?

Single author papers against my advisor's will?

Make it rain characters

Deal with toxic manager when you can't quit

Can the DM override racial traits?

Is 'stolen' appropriate word?

What force causes entropy to increase?

should truth entail possible truth



Is Sun brighter than what we actually see?



The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are In
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Why is the sky never green? It can be blue or orange, and green is in between!The Sun Can Make Stuff Hotter Than ItselfRadiation pressure on a Dyson sphereJupiter radiation belt: where >MeV particles comes from?Would it be possible to detect nuclear explosion on exoplanet?What would it be like “inside” a star?How does the sun's surface conduct thermal energy from the convective zone to the corona?Energy transport mechanism in starsWhat will happen if the nuclear reactions in the Sun stop suddenly?Why does the gas in Sun's outer layer not expand?Can we see emission lines in stars?












5












$begingroup$


I learned from that plasma can reflect radiations of frequency less than that of its own oscillations. If so, considering the plasma in Sun's atmosphere, it should also reflect solar radiations.



enter image description here



That would mean that the radiation emitted from the inner layers of the Sun would be reflected back by the outer layers. So, the only radiation coming out should be the ones generated at the outer layers, for which there is no denser layers of plasma surrounding it. And of course, the ones that have higher frequencies than the plasma in each layer would come out unscathed.



If this is true, most of the radiation generated by fusion will be trapped inside, and what we observe is only a fraction.



Note that the intensity of observable radiation coming out from stars would now mostly depend on the outermost layer. So, wouldn't it be inappropriate to consider stars as Black bodies while determining their temperature and other properties? Is Sun brighter and hotter than what we see from outside?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    You're almost right. As I recall (but would have to double-check), a photon emitted from the Sun's core takes ~1000 years before it escapes from the surface. Not the "same photon", of course, having experienced numerous various-and-sundry processes along the way. But, in any event, the Sun's ultimately in equilibrium (and let's hope it stays that way for a good long time), so everything generated is ultimately emitted.
    $endgroup$
    – John Forkosh
    yesterday












  • $begingroup$
    That is why the last dense opaque layer is called photosphere (indeed at about 5000 K versus a dozen millions K at the core). Outer of the photosphere stars have warmer but less dense not opaque layers. About the figure 1000 in @John Forkosh comment I ear higher values, such as 10000 and more, but in the very last case it was a TV program so I don't know. Already forgot what serious books said :(
    $endgroup$
    – Alchimista
    yesterday








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Since there cannot be a energy buildup inside the Sun, the energy flowing across any interior spherical surface should be the same as the energy that eventually comes out. The inner surface has a higher temperature but less surface area and hence radiates less, the outer surface has a lower temperature but a higher surface area. The temperature distribution of the Sun is in such an equilibrium that the energy flux radially outwards is constant.
    $endgroup$
    – Kevin Selva Prasanna
    yesterday
















5












$begingroup$


I learned from that plasma can reflect radiations of frequency less than that of its own oscillations. If so, considering the plasma in Sun's atmosphere, it should also reflect solar radiations.



enter image description here



That would mean that the radiation emitted from the inner layers of the Sun would be reflected back by the outer layers. So, the only radiation coming out should be the ones generated at the outer layers, for which there is no denser layers of plasma surrounding it. And of course, the ones that have higher frequencies than the plasma in each layer would come out unscathed.



If this is true, most of the radiation generated by fusion will be trapped inside, and what we observe is only a fraction.



Note that the intensity of observable radiation coming out from stars would now mostly depend on the outermost layer. So, wouldn't it be inappropriate to consider stars as Black bodies while determining their temperature and other properties? Is Sun brighter and hotter than what we see from outside?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    You're almost right. As I recall (but would have to double-check), a photon emitted from the Sun's core takes ~1000 years before it escapes from the surface. Not the "same photon", of course, having experienced numerous various-and-sundry processes along the way. But, in any event, the Sun's ultimately in equilibrium (and let's hope it stays that way for a good long time), so everything generated is ultimately emitted.
    $endgroup$
    – John Forkosh
    yesterday












  • $begingroup$
    That is why the last dense opaque layer is called photosphere (indeed at about 5000 K versus a dozen millions K at the core). Outer of the photosphere stars have warmer but less dense not opaque layers. About the figure 1000 in @John Forkosh comment I ear higher values, such as 10000 and more, but in the very last case it was a TV program so I don't know. Already forgot what serious books said :(
    $endgroup$
    – Alchimista
    yesterday








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Since there cannot be a energy buildup inside the Sun, the energy flowing across any interior spherical surface should be the same as the energy that eventually comes out. The inner surface has a higher temperature but less surface area and hence radiates less, the outer surface has a lower temperature but a higher surface area. The temperature distribution of the Sun is in such an equilibrium that the energy flux radially outwards is constant.
    $endgroup$
    – Kevin Selva Prasanna
    yesterday














5












5








5


1



$begingroup$


I learned from that plasma can reflect radiations of frequency less than that of its own oscillations. If so, considering the plasma in Sun's atmosphere, it should also reflect solar radiations.



enter image description here



That would mean that the radiation emitted from the inner layers of the Sun would be reflected back by the outer layers. So, the only radiation coming out should be the ones generated at the outer layers, for which there is no denser layers of plasma surrounding it. And of course, the ones that have higher frequencies than the plasma in each layer would come out unscathed.



If this is true, most of the radiation generated by fusion will be trapped inside, and what we observe is only a fraction.



Note that the intensity of observable radiation coming out from stars would now mostly depend on the outermost layer. So, wouldn't it be inappropriate to consider stars as Black bodies while determining their temperature and other properties? Is Sun brighter and hotter than what we see from outside?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




I learned from that plasma can reflect radiations of frequency less than that of its own oscillations. If so, considering the plasma in Sun's atmosphere, it should also reflect solar radiations.



enter image description here



That would mean that the radiation emitted from the inner layers of the Sun would be reflected back by the outer layers. So, the only radiation coming out should be the ones generated at the outer layers, for which there is no denser layers of plasma surrounding it. And of course, the ones that have higher frequencies than the plasma in each layer would come out unscathed.



If this is true, most of the radiation generated by fusion will be trapped inside, and what we observe is only a fraction.



Note that the intensity of observable radiation coming out from stars would now mostly depend on the outermost layer. So, wouldn't it be inappropriate to consider stars as Black bodies while determining their temperature and other properties? Is Sun brighter and hotter than what we see from outside?







astrophysics radiation thermal-radiation plasma-physics






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited yesterday







Krishnanand J

















asked yesterday









Krishnanand JKrishnanand J

8491325




8491325








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    You're almost right. As I recall (but would have to double-check), a photon emitted from the Sun's core takes ~1000 years before it escapes from the surface. Not the "same photon", of course, having experienced numerous various-and-sundry processes along the way. But, in any event, the Sun's ultimately in equilibrium (and let's hope it stays that way for a good long time), so everything generated is ultimately emitted.
    $endgroup$
    – John Forkosh
    yesterday












  • $begingroup$
    That is why the last dense opaque layer is called photosphere (indeed at about 5000 K versus a dozen millions K at the core). Outer of the photosphere stars have warmer but less dense not opaque layers. About the figure 1000 in @John Forkosh comment I ear higher values, such as 10000 and more, but in the very last case it was a TV program so I don't know. Already forgot what serious books said :(
    $endgroup$
    – Alchimista
    yesterday








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Since there cannot be a energy buildup inside the Sun, the energy flowing across any interior spherical surface should be the same as the energy that eventually comes out. The inner surface has a higher temperature but less surface area and hence radiates less, the outer surface has a lower temperature but a higher surface area. The temperature distribution of the Sun is in such an equilibrium that the energy flux radially outwards is constant.
    $endgroup$
    – Kevin Selva Prasanna
    yesterday














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    You're almost right. As I recall (but would have to double-check), a photon emitted from the Sun's core takes ~1000 years before it escapes from the surface. Not the "same photon", of course, having experienced numerous various-and-sundry processes along the way. But, in any event, the Sun's ultimately in equilibrium (and let's hope it stays that way for a good long time), so everything generated is ultimately emitted.
    $endgroup$
    – John Forkosh
    yesterday












  • $begingroup$
    That is why the last dense opaque layer is called photosphere (indeed at about 5000 K versus a dozen millions K at the core). Outer of the photosphere stars have warmer but less dense not opaque layers. About the figure 1000 in @John Forkosh comment I ear higher values, such as 10000 and more, but in the very last case it was a TV program so I don't know. Already forgot what serious books said :(
    $endgroup$
    – Alchimista
    yesterday








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Since there cannot be a energy buildup inside the Sun, the energy flowing across any interior spherical surface should be the same as the energy that eventually comes out. The inner surface has a higher temperature but less surface area and hence radiates less, the outer surface has a lower temperature but a higher surface area. The temperature distribution of the Sun is in such an equilibrium that the energy flux radially outwards is constant.
    $endgroup$
    – Kevin Selva Prasanna
    yesterday








1




1




$begingroup$
You're almost right. As I recall (but would have to double-check), a photon emitted from the Sun's core takes ~1000 years before it escapes from the surface. Not the "same photon", of course, having experienced numerous various-and-sundry processes along the way. But, in any event, the Sun's ultimately in equilibrium (and let's hope it stays that way for a good long time), so everything generated is ultimately emitted.
$endgroup$
– John Forkosh
yesterday






$begingroup$
You're almost right. As I recall (but would have to double-check), a photon emitted from the Sun's core takes ~1000 years before it escapes from the surface. Not the "same photon", of course, having experienced numerous various-and-sundry processes along the way. But, in any event, the Sun's ultimately in equilibrium (and let's hope it stays that way for a good long time), so everything generated is ultimately emitted.
$endgroup$
– John Forkosh
yesterday














$begingroup$
That is why the last dense opaque layer is called photosphere (indeed at about 5000 K versus a dozen millions K at the core). Outer of the photosphere stars have warmer but less dense not opaque layers. About the figure 1000 in @John Forkosh comment I ear higher values, such as 10000 and more, but in the very last case it was a TV program so I don't know. Already forgot what serious books said :(
$endgroup$
– Alchimista
yesterday






$begingroup$
That is why the last dense opaque layer is called photosphere (indeed at about 5000 K versus a dozen millions K at the core). Outer of the photosphere stars have warmer but less dense not opaque layers. About the figure 1000 in @John Forkosh comment I ear higher values, such as 10000 and more, but in the very last case it was a TV program so I don't know. Already forgot what serious books said :(
$endgroup$
– Alchimista
yesterday






2




2




$begingroup$
Since there cannot be a energy buildup inside the Sun, the energy flowing across any interior spherical surface should be the same as the energy that eventually comes out. The inner surface has a higher temperature but less surface area and hence radiates less, the outer surface has a lower temperature but a higher surface area. The temperature distribution of the Sun is in such an equilibrium that the energy flux radially outwards is constant.
$endgroup$
– Kevin Selva Prasanna
yesterday




$begingroup$
Since there cannot be a energy buildup inside the Sun, the energy flowing across any interior spherical surface should be the same as the energy that eventually comes out. The inner surface has a higher temperature but less surface area and hence radiates less, the outer surface has a lower temperature but a higher surface area. The temperature distribution of the Sun is in such an equilibrium that the energy flux radially outwards is constant.
$endgroup$
– Kevin Selva Prasanna
yesterday










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















13












$begingroup$


Note that the intensity of observable radiation coming out from stars would now mostly depend on the outermost layer.




Because the material in the star is opaque, it completely depends on the outermost layer. Of course the properties of that layer (such as its temperature) are driven by the energy coming from the interior.




So, wouldn't it be inappropriate to consider stars as Black bodies while determining their temperature and other properties?




It is appropriate for an object that has a spectrum that closely matches a blackbody spectrum. However the only property that describes is the temperature of the visible layer. It doesn't imply anything about the interior and processes that produce and distribute energy. You shouldn't read blackbody and think that means that the (invisible) interior is simple or in some way similar to the exterior.



The sun's interior is much hotter than the exterior (around 15 million Kelvin in the core, compared to the 6000 Kelvin or so at the photosphere). Because it is not visible, I would hesitate to call it "brighter". But you could consider it that way.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    0












    $begingroup$

    The following is a nuanced side point but relevant.




    Is Sun brighter than what we actually see?




    The short answer is yes.



    The longer answer is also yes, but for a subtle reason. The solar spectrum actually peaks in green visible light (e.g., see https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/137202/59023). We do not see a green star, however, because our eyes do not filter other frequencies and they have their own nonlinear response function that depends upon frequency. Because the response is not flat in frequency and it does not cover all frequencies, the total brightness "measured" by our eyes is not the same as that emitted by the sun.



    I will admit that this is a nuanced point and not directly related to the intention of the original question, at least from what I inferred. However, it is an important point to remember, namely, that our eyes (and ears) do not have flat response functions. We actually see yellow better than green, surprisingly.




    Is Sun brighter and hotter than what we see from outside?




    Brightness and hotness are somewhat subjective things here if we are asking about what any given human perceives (i.e., because it requires the verbal/written/signed description from the individual in question). Further, as an example, object A can be much hotter than object B but be perceived as dimmer depending the primary frequency at which the object emits radiation and the response of the receiver.



    Suppose the receiver is a telescope with spectral line filters and something like a Gaussian response centered on the spectral line peak frequency. If not properly calibrated, a signal could appear to increase then decrease in intensity simply because it scanned the frequency range of the filter. To account for this, one tries to properly calibrate so that things like brightness correspond to some measure of the number of photons (or flux or similar measure) received, i.e., quantify it so it can be compared and tested against other observations.



    To address the specific part of your question relating to the "outside" comment, the sun is a perfect illustration of why this criteria is misleading. The core of the sun, as BowlOfRed already stated, is ~4,500 times hotter than the surface (i.e., the photosphere). The outer atmosphere (i.e., the corona) is ~170 times hotter than the surface but you cannot see it as it is so much dimmer than the surface. One needs a coronagraph to view the visible light spectrum of the corona. The corona is so hot it actually radiates in the UV and x-ray frequency range. Again, you could never observe this as it is outside the range of frequencies to which your eye can respond.



    So to answer your question, yes, the sun is both brighter and hotter than what you can see. Further, it is hotter further inside AND outside but you cannot see either region with the naked eye (you can see the corona during a total solar eclipse for ~few minutes).






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$





















      0












      $begingroup$

      Yes, you are looking at the outer layer



      All the heat and light from the Sun is emitted by that outermost layer, which is essentially opaque to the processes going on inside it. The solar spectrum is a very good fit for a black body, and thus a black body temperature calculation applies to the surface of the Sun. It's not that hot, at around 5700 K.



      Yes, inside it gets hotter. A lot hotter



      5700K is not hot enough for fusion, unfortunately. As you correctly guessed, most of the light generated in the core stays there. At the core, the temperature is millions of Kelvin, and more than a hundred times the density of water as a plasma.



      Remember the Sun is a big gas/plasma ball



      The size of the Sun is governed by the balance of forces; outward pressure from the plasma which wants to expand vs inward pull of gravity. If there was more energy generated, that would tend to make the ball expand - there's no 'surface' to constrain it. So the surface and its properties are entirely a product of the energy being generated within the ball, and in fact largely at the core.



      What escapes is not a small fraction of the energy being generated



      The Sun is in a (broadly) stable state - it's not getting bigger or hotter. And the energy released by fusing nuclei doesn't have any other place to go; it's not going to go back into the heavier nuclei and split them up. So if the Sun is stable, that energy must all be flowing out in one way or another.



      We know, then, that the total energy being emitted by the Sun's surface is equal to the amount of energy being released by nuclear interactions at the Sun's core.



      We aren't saying the Sun is just a hot blob



      By modelling the Sun as a black body, all we are saying is that we can see its spectrum matches that of a generically hot thing at a particular temperature, and from there (and some assumptions about it being basically the same in all directions) we can work out the total power output of the Sun. We haven't had to make any assumptions about what's going on inside the Sun, only observe what reaches us and infer what must be coming out overall.



      With this knowledge we can start to infer what must be happening inside



      We know some things; how much power the Sun is producing, how big it is, the proportions of atomic species at the surface (from the details of the spectrum), its overall mass, the laws of gravity and the behaviours of plasmas. From that we have to try to model what must be happening inside.



      We have inferred, for example, what the dominant nuclear processes inside the Sun must be; we know the temperatures and pressures are not high enough for some cycles, but high enough for others.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$














        Your Answer








        StackExchange.ready(function() {
        var channelOptions = {
        tags: "".split(" "),
        id: "151"
        };
        initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

        StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
        // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
        if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
        StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
        createEditor();
        });
        }
        else {
        createEditor();
        }
        });

        function createEditor() {
        StackExchange.prepareEditor({
        heartbeatType: 'answer',
        autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
        convertImagesToLinks: false,
        noModals: true,
        showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
        reputationToPostImages: null,
        bindNavPrevention: true,
        postfix: "",
        imageUploader: {
        brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
        contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
        allowUrls: true
        },
        noCode: true, onDemand: true,
        discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
        ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
        });


        }
        });














        draft saved

        draft discarded


















        StackExchange.ready(
        function () {
        StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fphysics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f471886%2fis-sun-brighter-than-what-we-actually-see%23new-answer', 'question_page');
        }
        );

        Post as a guest















        Required, but never shown

























        3 Answers
        3






        active

        oldest

        votes








        3 Answers
        3






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        13












        $begingroup$


        Note that the intensity of observable radiation coming out from stars would now mostly depend on the outermost layer.




        Because the material in the star is opaque, it completely depends on the outermost layer. Of course the properties of that layer (such as its temperature) are driven by the energy coming from the interior.




        So, wouldn't it be inappropriate to consider stars as Black bodies while determining their temperature and other properties?




        It is appropriate for an object that has a spectrum that closely matches a blackbody spectrum. However the only property that describes is the temperature of the visible layer. It doesn't imply anything about the interior and processes that produce and distribute energy. You shouldn't read blackbody and think that means that the (invisible) interior is simple or in some way similar to the exterior.



        The sun's interior is much hotter than the exterior (around 15 million Kelvin in the core, compared to the 6000 Kelvin or so at the photosphere). Because it is not visible, I would hesitate to call it "brighter". But you could consider it that way.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$


















          13












          $begingroup$


          Note that the intensity of observable radiation coming out from stars would now mostly depend on the outermost layer.




          Because the material in the star is opaque, it completely depends on the outermost layer. Of course the properties of that layer (such as its temperature) are driven by the energy coming from the interior.




          So, wouldn't it be inappropriate to consider stars as Black bodies while determining their temperature and other properties?




          It is appropriate for an object that has a spectrum that closely matches a blackbody spectrum. However the only property that describes is the temperature of the visible layer. It doesn't imply anything about the interior and processes that produce and distribute energy. You shouldn't read blackbody and think that means that the (invisible) interior is simple or in some way similar to the exterior.



          The sun's interior is much hotter than the exterior (around 15 million Kelvin in the core, compared to the 6000 Kelvin or so at the photosphere). Because it is not visible, I would hesitate to call it "brighter". But you could consider it that way.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$
















            13












            13








            13





            $begingroup$


            Note that the intensity of observable radiation coming out from stars would now mostly depend on the outermost layer.




            Because the material in the star is opaque, it completely depends on the outermost layer. Of course the properties of that layer (such as its temperature) are driven by the energy coming from the interior.




            So, wouldn't it be inappropriate to consider stars as Black bodies while determining their temperature and other properties?




            It is appropriate for an object that has a spectrum that closely matches a blackbody spectrum. However the only property that describes is the temperature of the visible layer. It doesn't imply anything about the interior and processes that produce and distribute energy. You shouldn't read blackbody and think that means that the (invisible) interior is simple or in some way similar to the exterior.



            The sun's interior is much hotter than the exterior (around 15 million Kelvin in the core, compared to the 6000 Kelvin or so at the photosphere). Because it is not visible, I would hesitate to call it "brighter". But you could consider it that way.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$




            Note that the intensity of observable radiation coming out from stars would now mostly depend on the outermost layer.




            Because the material in the star is opaque, it completely depends on the outermost layer. Of course the properties of that layer (such as its temperature) are driven by the energy coming from the interior.




            So, wouldn't it be inappropriate to consider stars as Black bodies while determining their temperature and other properties?




            It is appropriate for an object that has a spectrum that closely matches a blackbody spectrum. However the only property that describes is the temperature of the visible layer. It doesn't imply anything about the interior and processes that produce and distribute energy. You shouldn't read blackbody and think that means that the (invisible) interior is simple or in some way similar to the exterior.



            The sun's interior is much hotter than the exterior (around 15 million Kelvin in the core, compared to the 6000 Kelvin or so at the photosphere). Because it is not visible, I would hesitate to call it "brighter". But you could consider it that way.







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered yesterday









            BowlOfRedBowlOfRed

            18.1k22746




            18.1k22746























                0












                $begingroup$

                The following is a nuanced side point but relevant.




                Is Sun brighter than what we actually see?




                The short answer is yes.



                The longer answer is also yes, but for a subtle reason. The solar spectrum actually peaks in green visible light (e.g., see https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/137202/59023). We do not see a green star, however, because our eyes do not filter other frequencies and they have their own nonlinear response function that depends upon frequency. Because the response is not flat in frequency and it does not cover all frequencies, the total brightness "measured" by our eyes is not the same as that emitted by the sun.



                I will admit that this is a nuanced point and not directly related to the intention of the original question, at least from what I inferred. However, it is an important point to remember, namely, that our eyes (and ears) do not have flat response functions. We actually see yellow better than green, surprisingly.




                Is Sun brighter and hotter than what we see from outside?




                Brightness and hotness are somewhat subjective things here if we are asking about what any given human perceives (i.e., because it requires the verbal/written/signed description from the individual in question). Further, as an example, object A can be much hotter than object B but be perceived as dimmer depending the primary frequency at which the object emits radiation and the response of the receiver.



                Suppose the receiver is a telescope with spectral line filters and something like a Gaussian response centered on the spectral line peak frequency. If not properly calibrated, a signal could appear to increase then decrease in intensity simply because it scanned the frequency range of the filter. To account for this, one tries to properly calibrate so that things like brightness correspond to some measure of the number of photons (or flux or similar measure) received, i.e., quantify it so it can be compared and tested against other observations.



                To address the specific part of your question relating to the "outside" comment, the sun is a perfect illustration of why this criteria is misleading. The core of the sun, as BowlOfRed already stated, is ~4,500 times hotter than the surface (i.e., the photosphere). The outer atmosphere (i.e., the corona) is ~170 times hotter than the surface but you cannot see it as it is so much dimmer than the surface. One needs a coronagraph to view the visible light spectrum of the corona. The corona is so hot it actually radiates in the UV and x-ray frequency range. Again, you could never observe this as it is outside the range of frequencies to which your eye can respond.



                So to answer your question, yes, the sun is both brighter and hotter than what you can see. Further, it is hotter further inside AND outside but you cannot see either region with the naked eye (you can see the corona during a total solar eclipse for ~few minutes).






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$


















                  0












                  $begingroup$

                  The following is a nuanced side point but relevant.




                  Is Sun brighter than what we actually see?




                  The short answer is yes.



                  The longer answer is also yes, but for a subtle reason. The solar spectrum actually peaks in green visible light (e.g., see https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/137202/59023). We do not see a green star, however, because our eyes do not filter other frequencies and they have their own nonlinear response function that depends upon frequency. Because the response is not flat in frequency and it does not cover all frequencies, the total brightness "measured" by our eyes is not the same as that emitted by the sun.



                  I will admit that this is a nuanced point and not directly related to the intention of the original question, at least from what I inferred. However, it is an important point to remember, namely, that our eyes (and ears) do not have flat response functions. We actually see yellow better than green, surprisingly.




                  Is Sun brighter and hotter than what we see from outside?




                  Brightness and hotness are somewhat subjective things here if we are asking about what any given human perceives (i.e., because it requires the verbal/written/signed description from the individual in question). Further, as an example, object A can be much hotter than object B but be perceived as dimmer depending the primary frequency at which the object emits radiation and the response of the receiver.



                  Suppose the receiver is a telescope with spectral line filters and something like a Gaussian response centered on the spectral line peak frequency. If not properly calibrated, a signal could appear to increase then decrease in intensity simply because it scanned the frequency range of the filter. To account for this, one tries to properly calibrate so that things like brightness correspond to some measure of the number of photons (or flux or similar measure) received, i.e., quantify it so it can be compared and tested against other observations.



                  To address the specific part of your question relating to the "outside" comment, the sun is a perfect illustration of why this criteria is misleading. The core of the sun, as BowlOfRed already stated, is ~4,500 times hotter than the surface (i.e., the photosphere). The outer atmosphere (i.e., the corona) is ~170 times hotter than the surface but you cannot see it as it is so much dimmer than the surface. One needs a coronagraph to view the visible light spectrum of the corona. The corona is so hot it actually radiates in the UV and x-ray frequency range. Again, you could never observe this as it is outside the range of frequencies to which your eye can respond.



                  So to answer your question, yes, the sun is both brighter and hotter than what you can see. Further, it is hotter further inside AND outside but you cannot see either region with the naked eye (you can see the corona during a total solar eclipse for ~few minutes).






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$
















                    0












                    0








                    0





                    $begingroup$

                    The following is a nuanced side point but relevant.




                    Is Sun brighter than what we actually see?




                    The short answer is yes.



                    The longer answer is also yes, but for a subtle reason. The solar spectrum actually peaks in green visible light (e.g., see https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/137202/59023). We do not see a green star, however, because our eyes do not filter other frequencies and they have their own nonlinear response function that depends upon frequency. Because the response is not flat in frequency and it does not cover all frequencies, the total brightness "measured" by our eyes is not the same as that emitted by the sun.



                    I will admit that this is a nuanced point and not directly related to the intention of the original question, at least from what I inferred. However, it is an important point to remember, namely, that our eyes (and ears) do not have flat response functions. We actually see yellow better than green, surprisingly.




                    Is Sun brighter and hotter than what we see from outside?




                    Brightness and hotness are somewhat subjective things here if we are asking about what any given human perceives (i.e., because it requires the verbal/written/signed description from the individual in question). Further, as an example, object A can be much hotter than object B but be perceived as dimmer depending the primary frequency at which the object emits radiation and the response of the receiver.



                    Suppose the receiver is a telescope with spectral line filters and something like a Gaussian response centered on the spectral line peak frequency. If not properly calibrated, a signal could appear to increase then decrease in intensity simply because it scanned the frequency range of the filter. To account for this, one tries to properly calibrate so that things like brightness correspond to some measure of the number of photons (or flux or similar measure) received, i.e., quantify it so it can be compared and tested against other observations.



                    To address the specific part of your question relating to the "outside" comment, the sun is a perfect illustration of why this criteria is misleading. The core of the sun, as BowlOfRed already stated, is ~4,500 times hotter than the surface (i.e., the photosphere). The outer atmosphere (i.e., the corona) is ~170 times hotter than the surface but you cannot see it as it is so much dimmer than the surface. One needs a coronagraph to view the visible light spectrum of the corona. The corona is so hot it actually radiates in the UV and x-ray frequency range. Again, you could never observe this as it is outside the range of frequencies to which your eye can respond.



                    So to answer your question, yes, the sun is both brighter and hotter than what you can see. Further, it is hotter further inside AND outside but you cannot see either region with the naked eye (you can see the corona during a total solar eclipse for ~few minutes).






                    share|cite|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$



                    The following is a nuanced side point but relevant.




                    Is Sun brighter than what we actually see?




                    The short answer is yes.



                    The longer answer is also yes, but for a subtle reason. The solar spectrum actually peaks in green visible light (e.g., see https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/137202/59023). We do not see a green star, however, because our eyes do not filter other frequencies and they have their own nonlinear response function that depends upon frequency. Because the response is not flat in frequency and it does not cover all frequencies, the total brightness "measured" by our eyes is not the same as that emitted by the sun.



                    I will admit that this is a nuanced point and not directly related to the intention of the original question, at least from what I inferred. However, it is an important point to remember, namely, that our eyes (and ears) do not have flat response functions. We actually see yellow better than green, surprisingly.




                    Is Sun brighter and hotter than what we see from outside?




                    Brightness and hotness are somewhat subjective things here if we are asking about what any given human perceives (i.e., because it requires the verbal/written/signed description from the individual in question). Further, as an example, object A can be much hotter than object B but be perceived as dimmer depending the primary frequency at which the object emits radiation and the response of the receiver.



                    Suppose the receiver is a telescope with spectral line filters and something like a Gaussian response centered on the spectral line peak frequency. If not properly calibrated, a signal could appear to increase then decrease in intensity simply because it scanned the frequency range of the filter. To account for this, one tries to properly calibrate so that things like brightness correspond to some measure of the number of photons (or flux or similar measure) received, i.e., quantify it so it can be compared and tested against other observations.



                    To address the specific part of your question relating to the "outside" comment, the sun is a perfect illustration of why this criteria is misleading. The core of the sun, as BowlOfRed already stated, is ~4,500 times hotter than the surface (i.e., the photosphere). The outer atmosphere (i.e., the corona) is ~170 times hotter than the surface but you cannot see it as it is so much dimmer than the surface. One needs a coronagraph to view the visible light spectrum of the corona. The corona is so hot it actually radiates in the UV and x-ray frequency range. Again, you could never observe this as it is outside the range of frequencies to which your eye can respond.



                    So to answer your question, yes, the sun is both brighter and hotter than what you can see. Further, it is hotter further inside AND outside but you cannot see either region with the naked eye (you can see the corona during a total solar eclipse for ~few minutes).







                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer










                    answered yesterday









                    honeste_viverehoneste_vivere

                    8,19731777




                    8,19731777























                        0












                        $begingroup$

                        Yes, you are looking at the outer layer



                        All the heat and light from the Sun is emitted by that outermost layer, which is essentially opaque to the processes going on inside it. The solar spectrum is a very good fit for a black body, and thus a black body temperature calculation applies to the surface of the Sun. It's not that hot, at around 5700 K.



                        Yes, inside it gets hotter. A lot hotter



                        5700K is not hot enough for fusion, unfortunately. As you correctly guessed, most of the light generated in the core stays there. At the core, the temperature is millions of Kelvin, and more than a hundred times the density of water as a plasma.



                        Remember the Sun is a big gas/plasma ball



                        The size of the Sun is governed by the balance of forces; outward pressure from the plasma which wants to expand vs inward pull of gravity. If there was more energy generated, that would tend to make the ball expand - there's no 'surface' to constrain it. So the surface and its properties are entirely a product of the energy being generated within the ball, and in fact largely at the core.



                        What escapes is not a small fraction of the energy being generated



                        The Sun is in a (broadly) stable state - it's not getting bigger or hotter. And the energy released by fusing nuclei doesn't have any other place to go; it's not going to go back into the heavier nuclei and split them up. So if the Sun is stable, that energy must all be flowing out in one way or another.



                        We know, then, that the total energy being emitted by the Sun's surface is equal to the amount of energy being released by nuclear interactions at the Sun's core.



                        We aren't saying the Sun is just a hot blob



                        By modelling the Sun as a black body, all we are saying is that we can see its spectrum matches that of a generically hot thing at a particular temperature, and from there (and some assumptions about it being basically the same in all directions) we can work out the total power output of the Sun. We haven't had to make any assumptions about what's going on inside the Sun, only observe what reaches us and infer what must be coming out overall.



                        With this knowledge we can start to infer what must be happening inside



                        We know some things; how much power the Sun is producing, how big it is, the proportions of atomic species at the surface (from the details of the spectrum), its overall mass, the laws of gravity and the behaviours of plasmas. From that we have to try to model what must be happening inside.



                        We have inferred, for example, what the dominant nuclear processes inside the Sun must be; we know the temperatures and pressures are not high enough for some cycles, but high enough for others.






                        share|cite|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$


















                          0












                          $begingroup$

                          Yes, you are looking at the outer layer



                          All the heat and light from the Sun is emitted by that outermost layer, which is essentially opaque to the processes going on inside it. The solar spectrum is a very good fit for a black body, and thus a black body temperature calculation applies to the surface of the Sun. It's not that hot, at around 5700 K.



                          Yes, inside it gets hotter. A lot hotter



                          5700K is not hot enough for fusion, unfortunately. As you correctly guessed, most of the light generated in the core stays there. At the core, the temperature is millions of Kelvin, and more than a hundred times the density of water as a plasma.



                          Remember the Sun is a big gas/plasma ball



                          The size of the Sun is governed by the balance of forces; outward pressure from the plasma which wants to expand vs inward pull of gravity. If there was more energy generated, that would tend to make the ball expand - there's no 'surface' to constrain it. So the surface and its properties are entirely a product of the energy being generated within the ball, and in fact largely at the core.



                          What escapes is not a small fraction of the energy being generated



                          The Sun is in a (broadly) stable state - it's not getting bigger or hotter. And the energy released by fusing nuclei doesn't have any other place to go; it's not going to go back into the heavier nuclei and split them up. So if the Sun is stable, that energy must all be flowing out in one way or another.



                          We know, then, that the total energy being emitted by the Sun's surface is equal to the amount of energy being released by nuclear interactions at the Sun's core.



                          We aren't saying the Sun is just a hot blob



                          By modelling the Sun as a black body, all we are saying is that we can see its spectrum matches that of a generically hot thing at a particular temperature, and from there (and some assumptions about it being basically the same in all directions) we can work out the total power output of the Sun. We haven't had to make any assumptions about what's going on inside the Sun, only observe what reaches us and infer what must be coming out overall.



                          With this knowledge we can start to infer what must be happening inside



                          We know some things; how much power the Sun is producing, how big it is, the proportions of atomic species at the surface (from the details of the spectrum), its overall mass, the laws of gravity and the behaviours of plasmas. From that we have to try to model what must be happening inside.



                          We have inferred, for example, what the dominant nuclear processes inside the Sun must be; we know the temperatures and pressures are not high enough for some cycles, but high enough for others.






                          share|cite|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$
















                            0












                            0








                            0





                            $begingroup$

                            Yes, you are looking at the outer layer



                            All the heat and light from the Sun is emitted by that outermost layer, which is essentially opaque to the processes going on inside it. The solar spectrum is a very good fit for a black body, and thus a black body temperature calculation applies to the surface of the Sun. It's not that hot, at around 5700 K.



                            Yes, inside it gets hotter. A lot hotter



                            5700K is not hot enough for fusion, unfortunately. As you correctly guessed, most of the light generated in the core stays there. At the core, the temperature is millions of Kelvin, and more than a hundred times the density of water as a plasma.



                            Remember the Sun is a big gas/plasma ball



                            The size of the Sun is governed by the balance of forces; outward pressure from the plasma which wants to expand vs inward pull of gravity. If there was more energy generated, that would tend to make the ball expand - there's no 'surface' to constrain it. So the surface and its properties are entirely a product of the energy being generated within the ball, and in fact largely at the core.



                            What escapes is not a small fraction of the energy being generated



                            The Sun is in a (broadly) stable state - it's not getting bigger or hotter. And the energy released by fusing nuclei doesn't have any other place to go; it's not going to go back into the heavier nuclei and split them up. So if the Sun is stable, that energy must all be flowing out in one way or another.



                            We know, then, that the total energy being emitted by the Sun's surface is equal to the amount of energy being released by nuclear interactions at the Sun's core.



                            We aren't saying the Sun is just a hot blob



                            By modelling the Sun as a black body, all we are saying is that we can see its spectrum matches that of a generically hot thing at a particular temperature, and from there (and some assumptions about it being basically the same in all directions) we can work out the total power output of the Sun. We haven't had to make any assumptions about what's going on inside the Sun, only observe what reaches us and infer what must be coming out overall.



                            With this knowledge we can start to infer what must be happening inside



                            We know some things; how much power the Sun is producing, how big it is, the proportions of atomic species at the surface (from the details of the spectrum), its overall mass, the laws of gravity and the behaviours of plasmas. From that we have to try to model what must be happening inside.



                            We have inferred, for example, what the dominant nuclear processes inside the Sun must be; we know the temperatures and pressures are not high enough for some cycles, but high enough for others.






                            share|cite|improve this answer









                            $endgroup$



                            Yes, you are looking at the outer layer



                            All the heat and light from the Sun is emitted by that outermost layer, which is essentially opaque to the processes going on inside it. The solar spectrum is a very good fit for a black body, and thus a black body temperature calculation applies to the surface of the Sun. It's not that hot, at around 5700 K.



                            Yes, inside it gets hotter. A lot hotter



                            5700K is not hot enough for fusion, unfortunately. As you correctly guessed, most of the light generated in the core stays there. At the core, the temperature is millions of Kelvin, and more than a hundred times the density of water as a plasma.



                            Remember the Sun is a big gas/plasma ball



                            The size of the Sun is governed by the balance of forces; outward pressure from the plasma which wants to expand vs inward pull of gravity. If there was more energy generated, that would tend to make the ball expand - there's no 'surface' to constrain it. So the surface and its properties are entirely a product of the energy being generated within the ball, and in fact largely at the core.



                            What escapes is not a small fraction of the energy being generated



                            The Sun is in a (broadly) stable state - it's not getting bigger or hotter. And the energy released by fusing nuclei doesn't have any other place to go; it's not going to go back into the heavier nuclei and split them up. So if the Sun is stable, that energy must all be flowing out in one way or another.



                            We know, then, that the total energy being emitted by the Sun's surface is equal to the amount of energy being released by nuclear interactions at the Sun's core.



                            We aren't saying the Sun is just a hot blob



                            By modelling the Sun as a black body, all we are saying is that we can see its spectrum matches that of a generically hot thing at a particular temperature, and from there (and some assumptions about it being basically the same in all directions) we can work out the total power output of the Sun. We haven't had to make any assumptions about what's going on inside the Sun, only observe what reaches us and infer what must be coming out overall.



                            With this knowledge we can start to infer what must be happening inside



                            We know some things; how much power the Sun is producing, how big it is, the proportions of atomic species at the surface (from the details of the spectrum), its overall mass, the laws of gravity and the behaviours of plasmas. From that we have to try to model what must be happening inside.



                            We have inferred, for example, what the dominant nuclear processes inside the Sun must be; we know the temperatures and pressures are not high enough for some cycles, but high enough for others.







                            share|cite|improve this answer












                            share|cite|improve this answer



                            share|cite|improve this answer










                            answered 17 hours ago









                            Phil HPhil H

                            870413




                            870413






























                                draft saved

                                draft discarded




















































                                Thanks for contributing an answer to Physics Stack Exchange!


                                • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                But avoid



                                • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                                Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                                To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                draft saved


                                draft discarded














                                StackExchange.ready(
                                function () {
                                StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fphysics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f471886%2fis-sun-brighter-than-what-we-actually-see%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                                }
                                );

                                Post as a guest















                                Required, but never shown





















































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown

































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown







                                Popular posts from this blog

                                Couldn't open a raw socket. Error: Permission denied (13) (nmap)Is it possible to run networking commands...

                                VNC viewer RFB protocol error: bad desktop size 0x0I Cannot Type the Key 'd' (lowercase) in VNC Viewer...

                                Why not use the yoke to control yaw, as well as pitch and roll? Announcing the arrival of...