Why does Java have support for time zone offsets with seconds precision? The Ask Question...
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Why does Java have support for time zone offsets with seconds precision?
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On Wikipedia time zone offsets are explained as the difference in hours and minutes from standard UTC time. However, DateTimeFormatter supports zone-offset pattern XXXXX, which "outputs the hour and minute and optional second, with a colon, such as '+01:30:15'."
Are offsets like +01:30:15 ISO valid? If not, based on which standard does Java define such offsets?
java java-time
edited 4 hours ago
ruakh
129k14207260
asked 13 hours ago
Michal KordasMichal Kordas
5,57733060
|
show 1 more comment
On Wikipedia time zone offsets are explained as the difference in hours and minutes from standard UTC time. However, DateTimeFormatter supports zone-offset pattern XXXXX, which "outputs the hour and minute and optional second, with a colon, such as '+01:30:15'."
Are offsets like +01:30:15 ISO valid? If not, based on which standard does Java define such offsets?
java java-time
edited 4 hours ago
ruakh
129k14207260
asked 13 hours ago
Michal KordasMichal Kordas
5,57733060
4
probably its development was not based on Wikipedia and/or ISO
– Carlos Heuberger
13 hours ago
4
If you have a look at the "See also" section under Wikipedia's article on UTC you'll see a selection of time standards that have second (and even fractional second) offsets from UTC.Of particular interst is TAI (International Atomic Time) on which UTC is based (the difference is 37s)
– Chris H
10 hours ago
3
@ChrisH the difference is currently 37s!
– Lightness Races in Orbit
10 hours ago
2
@ChrisH Absolutely! I worked in telecoms until last year and it's a big deal there too.
– Lightness Races in Orbit
9 hours ago
2
@ChrisH: As well as broadcast, where the traditional analog synchronization mechanisms (wordclock, black and burst, tri-level sync) are being replaced by network-based synchronization, namely PTP whose timebase is TAI. Broadcast is only the latest user of PTP, it is already well established in telco, robotics, and factory automation. Also, GPS time is based on TAI with a fixed offset of 19 seconds and thus currently 18 seconds to UTC.
– Jörg W Mittag
5 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
On Wikipedia time zone offsets are explained as the difference in hours and minutes from standard UTC time. However, DateTimeFormatter supports zone-offset pattern XXXXX, which "outputs the hour and minute and optional second, with a colon, such as '+01:30:15'."
Are offsets like +01:30:15 ISO valid? If not, based on which standard does Java define such offsets?
java java-time
edited 4 hours ago
ruakh
129k14207260
asked 13 hours ago
Michal KordasMichal Kordas
5,57733060
On Wikipedia time zone offsets are explained as the difference in hours and minutes from standard UTC time. However, DateTimeFormatter supports zone-offset pattern XXXXX, which "outputs the hour and minute and optional second, with a colon, such as '+01:30:15'."
Are offsets like +01:30:15 ISO valid? If not, based on which standard does Java define such offsets?
java java-time
java java-time
edited 4 hours ago
ruakh
129k14207260
asked 13 hours ago
Michal KordasMichal Kordas
5,57733060
edited 4 hours ago
ruakh
129k14207260
asked 13 hours ago
Michal KordasMichal Kordas
5,57733060
edited 4 hours ago
ruakh
129k14207260
edited 4 hours ago
ruakh
129k14207260
edited 4 hours ago
ruakh
129k14207260
129k14207260
asked 13 hours ago
Michal KordasMichal Kordas
5,57733060
asked 13 hours ago
Michal KordasMichal Kordas
5,57733060
asked 13 hours ago
Michal KordasMichal Kordas
5,57733060
5,57733060
4
probably its development was not based on Wikipedia and/or ISO
– Carlos Heuberger
13 hours ago
4
If you have a look at the "See also" section under Wikipedia's article on UTC you'll see a selection of time standards that have second (and even fractional second) offsets from UTC.Of particular interst is TAI (International Atomic Time) on which UTC is based (the difference is 37s)
– Chris H
10 hours ago
3
@ChrisH the difference is currently 37s!
– Lightness Races in Orbit
10 hours ago
2
@ChrisH Absolutely! I worked in telecoms until last year and it's a big deal there too.
– Lightness Races in Orbit
9 hours ago
2
@ChrisH: As well as broadcast, where the traditional analog synchronization mechanisms (wordclock, black and burst, tri-level sync) are being replaced by network-based synchronization, namely PTP whose timebase is TAI. Broadcast is only the latest user of PTP, it is already well established in telco, robotics, and factory automation. Also, GPS time is based on TAI with a fixed offset of 19 seconds and thus currently 18 seconds to UTC.
– Jörg W Mittag
5 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
4
probably its development was not based on Wikipedia and/or ISO
– Carlos Heuberger
13 hours ago
4
If you have a look at the "See also" section under Wikipedia's article on UTC you'll see a selection of time standards that have second (and even fractional second) offsets from UTC.Of particular interst is TAI (International Atomic Time) on which UTC is based (the difference is 37s)
– Chris H
10 hours ago
3
@ChrisH the difference is currently 37s!
– Lightness Races in Orbit
10 hours ago
2
@ChrisH Absolutely! I worked in telecoms until last year and it's a big deal there too.
– Lightness Races in Orbit
9 hours ago
2
@ChrisH: As well as broadcast, where the traditional analog synchronization mechanisms (wordclock, black and burst, tri-level sync) are being replaced by network-based synchronization, namely PTP whose timebase is TAI. Broadcast is only the latest user of PTP, it is already well established in telco, robotics, and factory automation. Also, GPS time is based on TAI with a fixed offset of 19 seconds and thus currently 18 seconds to UTC.
– Jörg W Mittag
5 hours ago
4
4
probably its development was not based on Wikipedia and/or ISO
– Carlos Heuberger
13 hours ago
probably its development was not based on Wikipedia and/or ISO
– Carlos Heuberger
13 hours ago
4
4
If you have a look at the "See also" section under Wikipedia's article on UTC you'll see a selection of time standards that have second (and even fractional second) offsets from UTC.Of particular interst is TAI (International Atomic Time) on which UTC is based (the difference is 37s)
– Chris H
10 hours ago
If you have a look at the "See also" section under Wikipedia's article on UTC you'll see a selection of time standards that have second (and even fractional second) offsets from UTC.Of particular interst is TAI (International Atomic Time) on which UTC is based (the difference is 37s)
– Chris H
10 hours ago
3
3
@ChrisH the difference is currently 37s!
– Lightness Races in Orbit
10 hours ago
@ChrisH the difference is currently 37s!
– Lightness Races in Orbit
10 hours ago
2
2
@ChrisH Absolutely! I worked in telecoms until last year and it's a big deal there too.
– Lightness Races in Orbit
9 hours ago
@ChrisH Absolutely! I worked in telecoms until last year and it's a big deal there too.
– Lightness Races in Orbit
9 hours ago
2
2
@ChrisH: As well as broadcast, where the traditional analog synchronization mechanisms (wordclock, black and burst, tri-level sync) are being replaced by network-based synchronization, namely PTP whose timebase is TAI. Broadcast is only the latest user of PTP, it is already well established in telco, robotics, and factory automation. Also, GPS time is based on TAI with a fixed offset of 19 seconds and thus currently 18 seconds to UTC.
– Jörg W Mittag
5 hours ago
@ChrisH: As well as broadcast, where the traditional analog synchronization mechanisms (wordclock, black and burst, tri-level sync) are being replaced by network-based synchronization, namely PTP whose timebase is TAI. Broadcast is only the latest user of PTP, it is already well established in telco, robotics, and factory automation. Also, GPS time is based on TAI with a fixed offset of 19 seconds and thus currently 18 seconds to UTC.
– Jörg W Mittag
5 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
It's not supported by ISO-8601, but it is a valid offset as recorded in the IANA time zone database.
Sub-minute offsets are common in the data for the late 19th and early 20th century, before time zones were properly standardized. For example, Europe/Paris had an offset of +00:09:21 until 1911 (according to the IANA database).
The latest occurrence I can find for this is Africa/Monrovia which had a sub-minute offset until 1972!
answered 13 hours ago
Jon SkeetJon Skeet
1101k69880168487
17
In other words, "the use case for offset like+01:30:15" is … to represent the offset+01:30:15.
– Jörg W Mittag
11 hours ago
6
GPS time is also offset from UTC by a number of seconds (currently UTC+00:00:18).
– Kundor
8 hours ago
4
The perfect Jon Skeet question. :)
– Eric Lippert
5 hours ago
6
@EricLippert: It does feel like it was almost written for me, yes :) (And I find it pleasant that the console app I used to find that latest occurrence was less than 25 lines long. Could probably have written it even more briefly with LINQ, but probably less readably...)
– Jon Skeet
5 hours ago
4
@EricLippert: Turns out the LINQ version is more readable: gist.github.com/jskeet/f1c236d305ad5cb89daafd87941b4d88
– Jon Skeet
4 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
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1 Answer
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1 Answer
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active
oldest
votes
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oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
It's not supported by ISO-8601, but it is a valid offset as recorded in the IANA time zone database.
Sub-minute offsets are common in the data for the late 19th and early 20th century, before time zones were properly standardized. For example, Europe/Paris had an offset of +00:09:21 until 1911 (according to the IANA database).
The latest occurrence I can find for this is Africa/Monrovia which had a sub-minute offset until 1972!
answered 13 hours ago
Jon SkeetJon Skeet
1101k69880168487
17
In other words, "the use case for offset like+01:30:15" is … to represent the offset+01:30:15.
– Jörg W Mittag
11 hours ago
6
GPS time is also offset from UTC by a number of seconds (currently UTC+00:00:18).
– Kundor
8 hours ago
4
The perfect Jon Skeet question. :)
– Eric Lippert
5 hours ago
6
@EricLippert: It does feel like it was almost written for me, yes :) (And I find it pleasant that the console app I used to find that latest occurrence was less than 25 lines long. Could probably have written it even more briefly with LINQ, but probably less readably...)
– Jon Skeet
5 hours ago
4
@EricLippert: Turns out the LINQ version is more readable: gist.github.com/jskeet/f1c236d305ad5cb89daafd87941b4d88
– Jon Skeet
4 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
It's not supported by ISO-8601, but it is a valid offset as recorded in the IANA time zone database.
Sub-minute offsets are common in the data for the late 19th and early 20th century, before time zones were properly standardized. For example, Europe/Paris had an offset of +00:09:21 until 1911 (according to the IANA database).
The latest occurrence I can find for this is Africa/Monrovia which had a sub-minute offset until 1972!
answered 13 hours ago
Jon SkeetJon Skeet
1101k69880168487
17
In other words, "the use case for offset like+01:30:15" is … to represent the offset+01:30:15.
– Jörg W Mittag
11 hours ago
6
GPS time is also offset from UTC by a number of seconds (currently UTC+00:00:18).
– Kundor
8 hours ago
4
The perfect Jon Skeet question. :)
– Eric Lippert
5 hours ago
6
@EricLippert: It does feel like it was almost written for me, yes :) (And I find it pleasant that the console app I used to find that latest occurrence was less than 25 lines long. Could probably have written it even more briefly with LINQ, but probably less readably...)
– Jon Skeet
5 hours ago
4
@EricLippert: Turns out the LINQ version is more readable: gist.github.com/jskeet/f1c236d305ad5cb89daafd87941b4d88
– Jon Skeet
4 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
It's not supported by ISO-8601, but it is a valid offset as recorded in the IANA time zone database.
Sub-minute offsets are common in the data for the late 19th and early 20th century, before time zones were properly standardized. For example, Europe/Paris had an offset of +00:09:21 until 1911 (according to the IANA database).
The latest occurrence I can find for this is Africa/Monrovia which had a sub-minute offset until 1972!
answered 13 hours ago
Jon SkeetJon Skeet
1101k69880168487
It's not supported by ISO-8601, but it is a valid offset as recorded in the IANA time zone database.
Sub-minute offsets are common in the data for the late 19th and early 20th century, before time zones were properly standardized. For example, Europe/Paris had an offset of +00:09:21 until 1911 (according to the IANA database).
The latest occurrence I can find for this is Africa/Monrovia which had a sub-minute offset until 1972!
answered 13 hours ago
Jon SkeetJon Skeet
1101k69880168487
edited 13 hours ago
answered 13 hours ago
Jon SkeetJon Skeet
1101k69880168487
answered 13 hours ago
Jon SkeetJon Skeet
1101k69880168487
answered 13 hours ago
Jon SkeetJon Skeet
1101k69880168487
1101k69880168487
17
In other words, "the use case for offset like+01:30:15" is … to represent the offset+01:30:15.
– Jörg W Mittag
11 hours ago
6
GPS time is also offset from UTC by a number of seconds (currently UTC+00:00:18).
– Kundor
8 hours ago
4
The perfect Jon Skeet question. :)
– Eric Lippert
5 hours ago
6
@EricLippert: It does feel like it was almost written for me, yes :) (And I find it pleasant that the console app I used to find that latest occurrence was less than 25 lines long. Could probably have written it even more briefly with LINQ, but probably less readably...)
– Jon Skeet
5 hours ago
4
@EricLippert: Turns out the LINQ version is more readable: gist.github.com/jskeet/f1c236d305ad5cb89daafd87941b4d88
– Jon Skeet
4 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
17
In other words, "the use case for offset like+01:30:15" is … to represent the offset+01:30:15.
– Jörg W Mittag
11 hours ago
6
GPS time is also offset from UTC by a number of seconds (currently UTC+00:00:18).
– Kundor
8 hours ago
4
The perfect Jon Skeet question. :)
– Eric Lippert
5 hours ago
6
@EricLippert: It does feel like it was almost written for me, yes :) (And I find it pleasant that the console app I used to find that latest occurrence was less than 25 lines long. Could probably have written it even more briefly with LINQ, but probably less readably...)
– Jon Skeet
5 hours ago
4
@EricLippert: Turns out the LINQ version is more readable: gist.github.com/jskeet/f1c236d305ad5cb89daafd87941b4d88
– Jon Skeet
4 hours ago
17
17
In other words, "the use case for offset like
+01:30:15" is … to represent the offset +01:30:15.– Jörg W Mittag
11 hours ago
In other words, "the use case for offset like
+01:30:15" is … to represent the offset +01:30:15.– Jörg W Mittag
11 hours ago
6
6
GPS time is also offset from UTC by a number of seconds (currently UTC+00:00:18).
– Kundor
8 hours ago
GPS time is also offset from UTC by a number of seconds (currently UTC+00:00:18).
– Kundor
8 hours ago
4
4
The perfect Jon Skeet question. :)
– Eric Lippert
5 hours ago
The perfect Jon Skeet question. :)
– Eric Lippert
5 hours ago
6
6
@EricLippert: It does feel like it was almost written for me, yes :) (And I find it pleasant that the console app I used to find that latest occurrence was less than 25 lines long. Could probably have written it even more briefly with LINQ, but probably less readably...)
– Jon Skeet
5 hours ago
@EricLippert: It does feel like it was almost written for me, yes :) (And I find it pleasant that the console app I used to find that latest occurrence was less than 25 lines long. Could probably have written it even more briefly with LINQ, but probably less readably...)
– Jon Skeet
5 hours ago
4
4
@EricLippert: Turns out the LINQ version is more readable: gist.github.com/jskeet/f1c236d305ad5cb89daafd87941b4d88
– Jon Skeet
4 hours ago
@EricLippert: Turns out the LINQ version is more readable: gist.github.com/jskeet/f1c236d305ad5cb89daafd87941b4d88
– Jon Skeet
4 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
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4
probably its development was not based on Wikipedia and/or ISO
– Carlos Heuberger
13 hours ago
4
If you have a look at the "See also" section under Wikipedia's article on UTC you'll see a selection of time standards that have second (and even fractional second) offsets from UTC.Of particular interst is TAI (International Atomic Time) on which UTC is based (the difference is 37s)
– Chris H
10 hours ago
3
@ChrisH the difference is currently 37s!
– Lightness Races in Orbit
10 hours ago
2
@ChrisH Absolutely! I worked in telecoms until last year and it's a big deal there too.
– Lightness Races in Orbit
9 hours ago
2
@ChrisH: As well as broadcast, where the traditional analog synchronization mechanisms (wordclock, black and burst, tri-level sync) are being replaced by network-based synchronization, namely PTP whose timebase is TAI. Broadcast is only the latest user of PTP, it is already well established in telco, robotics, and factory automation. Also, GPS time is based on TAI with a fixed offset of 19 seconds and thus currently 18 seconds to UTC.
– Jörg W Mittag
5 hours ago