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Two films in a tank, only one comes out with a development error – why?
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I recently developed two 35mm films together in a tank. One, and only one of them, came out with artefacts on most (but not all) of the exposures – spots of uneven development that seem to originate from the film sprocket holes. Here's one frame from the roll for illustration:
(Negative digitized using a digital camera; you can just about discern the film sprocket holes behind the improvised white mask.)
I'm new to film processing, having developed ~10 films so far; I have never encountered this problem before, but it looks to me like an agitation issue. The procedure was as follows:
- Loaded two 35mm films in a Jobo tank, one reel on top of the other. The films were Ilford FP4+ rated at EI64 and Fomapan 100 rated at EI100. The film with the problem is FP4+; Fomapan came out perfect. I don't remember which film was on top.
- Developed in 1:4 Ilfotec DD-X for 8 minutes in 20°C, following Ilford's recommended agitation routine (4 inversions spread out over 10 seconds every 1 minute), except that at one point I had a bit of a lapse of attention and there was 1½ minutes between two successive agitations (and then only ½ a minute before the next one).
- Stopped in Ilfostop.
- Fixed with 1:4 Ilford Rapid Fixer, 2 or 3 minutes.
- Washed using Ilford's "fill tank with water, invert n number of times, pour water out, repeat, repeat and repeat" method.
My specific questions:
- What caused this artefact, and why does it appear on one film only?
- Would the order in which the films were loaded have an effect? Is the damaged one more likely to have sat at the bottom or at the top?
- What can I do to avoid this sort of thing in the future?
developing 35mm darkroom
asked 2 days ago
KahoviusKahovius
737
New contributor
Kahovius is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
|
show 3 more comments
I recently developed two 35mm films together in a tank. One, and only one of them, came out with artefacts on most (but not all) of the exposures – spots of uneven development that seem to originate from the film sprocket holes. Here's one frame from the roll for illustration:
(Negative digitized using a digital camera; you can just about discern the film sprocket holes behind the improvised white mask.)
I'm new to film processing, having developed ~10 films so far; I have never encountered this problem before, but it looks to me like an agitation issue. The procedure was as follows:
- Loaded two 35mm films in a Jobo tank, one reel on top of the other. The films were Ilford FP4+ rated at EI64 and Fomapan 100 rated at EI100. The film with the problem is FP4+; Fomapan came out perfect. I don't remember which film was on top.
- Developed in 1:4 Ilfotec DD-X for 8 minutes in 20°C, following Ilford's recommended agitation routine (4 inversions spread out over 10 seconds every 1 minute), except that at one point I had a bit of a lapse of attention and there was 1½ minutes between two successive agitations (and then only ½ a minute before the next one).
- Stopped in Ilfostop.
- Fixed with 1:4 Ilford Rapid Fixer, 2 or 3 minutes.
- Washed using Ilford's "fill tank with water, invert n number of times, pour water out, repeat, repeat and repeat" method.
My specific questions:
- What caused this artefact, and why does it appear on one film only?
- Would the order in which the films were loaded have an effect? Is the damaged one more likely to have sat at the bottom or at the top?
- What can I do to avoid this sort of thing in the future?
developing 35mm darkroom
asked 2 days ago
KahoviusKahovius
737
New contributor
Kahovius is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
The films were both exposed in the same camera, yes? With similar storage/handling before/after exposure? Any other differences between the films before you got to the point of starting development?
– osullic
2 days ago
1
Now that you mention it, I do remember that when I opened one of the film canisters, the film seemed to be "sticking to itself" in a way I had never experienced before. I don't know if it was the FP4 or the Fomapan, but I suspect the first. I didn't think much of it at the time – just thought this was characteristic of this type of film (which I had never processed before). Apart from that, same camera, storage and handling and both films exposed maybe a week apart. I should perhaps also add that the films went through airport security (carry-on bag) between exposure and development.
– Kahovius
2 days ago
What kind of reels are you using?
– Blrfl
2 days ago
4
Can you describe the specific error in text, to make it easier for people with similarly problems to find in the future?
– mattdm
2 days ago
1
If one of the films was 'odd' out of the can, then it's likely the Foma. I love Foma (particularly the papers) but their film bases are not as good as Ilford's: they're often a significant pain to load.
– tfb
2 days ago
|
show 3 more comments
I recently developed two 35mm films together in a tank. One, and only one of them, came out with artefacts on most (but not all) of the exposures – spots of uneven development that seem to originate from the film sprocket holes. Here's one frame from the roll for illustration:
(Negative digitized using a digital camera; you can just about discern the film sprocket holes behind the improvised white mask.)
I'm new to film processing, having developed ~10 films so far; I have never encountered this problem before, but it looks to me like an agitation issue. The procedure was as follows:
- Loaded two 35mm films in a Jobo tank, one reel on top of the other. The films were Ilford FP4+ rated at EI64 and Fomapan 100 rated at EI100. The film with the problem is FP4+; Fomapan came out perfect. I don't remember which film was on top.
- Developed in 1:4 Ilfotec DD-X for 8 minutes in 20°C, following Ilford's recommended agitation routine (4 inversions spread out over 10 seconds every 1 minute), except that at one point I had a bit of a lapse of attention and there was 1½ minutes between two successive agitations (and then only ½ a minute before the next one).
- Stopped in Ilfostop.
- Fixed with 1:4 Ilford Rapid Fixer, 2 or 3 minutes.
- Washed using Ilford's "fill tank with water, invert n number of times, pour water out, repeat, repeat and repeat" method.
My specific questions:
- What caused this artefact, and why does it appear on one film only?
- Would the order in which the films were loaded have an effect? Is the damaged one more likely to have sat at the bottom or at the top?
- What can I do to avoid this sort of thing in the future?
developing 35mm darkroom
asked 2 days ago
KahoviusKahovius
737
New contributor
Kahovius is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
I recently developed two 35mm films together in a tank. One, and only one of them, came out with artefacts on most (but not all) of the exposures – spots of uneven development that seem to originate from the film sprocket holes. Here's one frame from the roll for illustration:
(Negative digitized using a digital camera; you can just about discern the film sprocket holes behind the improvised white mask.)
I'm new to film processing, having developed ~10 films so far; I have never encountered this problem before, but it looks to me like an agitation issue. The procedure was as follows:
- Loaded two 35mm films in a Jobo tank, one reel on top of the other. The films were Ilford FP4+ rated at EI64 and Fomapan 100 rated at EI100. The film with the problem is FP4+; Fomapan came out perfect. I don't remember which film was on top.
- Developed in 1:4 Ilfotec DD-X for 8 minutes in 20°C, following Ilford's recommended agitation routine (4 inversions spread out over 10 seconds every 1 minute), except that at one point I had a bit of a lapse of attention and there was 1½ minutes between two successive agitations (and then only ½ a minute before the next one).
- Stopped in Ilfostop.
- Fixed with 1:4 Ilford Rapid Fixer, 2 or 3 minutes.
- Washed using Ilford's "fill tank with water, invert n number of times, pour water out, repeat, repeat and repeat" method.
My specific questions:
- What caused this artefact, and why does it appear on one film only?
- Would the order in which the films were loaded have an effect? Is the damaged one more likely to have sat at the bottom or at the top?
- What can I do to avoid this sort of thing in the future?
developing 35mm darkroom
developing 35mm darkroom
asked 2 days ago
KahoviusKahovius
737
New contributor
Kahovius is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 2 days ago
KahoviusKahovius
737
New contributor
Kahovius is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited yesterday
Kahovius
asked 2 days ago
KahoviusKahovius
737
New contributor
Kahovius is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 2 days ago
KahoviusKahovius
737
asked 2 days ago
KahoviusKahovius
737
737
New contributor
Kahovius is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Kahovius is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Kahovius is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
The films were both exposed in the same camera, yes? With similar storage/handling before/after exposure? Any other differences between the films before you got to the point of starting development?
– osullic
2 days ago
1
Now that you mention it, I do remember that when I opened one of the film canisters, the film seemed to be "sticking to itself" in a way I had never experienced before. I don't know if it was the FP4 or the Fomapan, but I suspect the first. I didn't think much of it at the time – just thought this was characteristic of this type of film (which I had never processed before). Apart from that, same camera, storage and handling and both films exposed maybe a week apart. I should perhaps also add that the films went through airport security (carry-on bag) between exposure and development.
– Kahovius
2 days ago
What kind of reels are you using?
– Blrfl
2 days ago
4
Can you describe the specific error in text, to make it easier for people with similarly problems to find in the future?
– mattdm
2 days ago
1
If one of the films was 'odd' out of the can, then it's likely the Foma. I love Foma (particularly the papers) but their film bases are not as good as Ilford's: they're often a significant pain to load.
– tfb
2 days ago
|
show 3 more comments
1
The films were both exposed in the same camera, yes? With similar storage/handling before/after exposure? Any other differences between the films before you got to the point of starting development?
– osullic
2 days ago
1
Now that you mention it, I do remember that when I opened one of the film canisters, the film seemed to be "sticking to itself" in a way I had never experienced before. I don't know if it was the FP4 or the Fomapan, but I suspect the first. I didn't think much of it at the time – just thought this was characteristic of this type of film (which I had never processed before). Apart from that, same camera, storage and handling and both films exposed maybe a week apart. I should perhaps also add that the films went through airport security (carry-on bag) between exposure and development.
– Kahovius
2 days ago
What kind of reels are you using?
– Blrfl
2 days ago
4
Can you describe the specific error in text, to make it easier for people with similarly problems to find in the future?
– mattdm
2 days ago
1
If one of the films was 'odd' out of the can, then it's likely the Foma. I love Foma (particularly the papers) but their film bases are not as good as Ilford's: they're often a significant pain to load.
– tfb
2 days ago
1
1
The films were both exposed in the same camera, yes? With similar storage/handling before/after exposure? Any other differences between the films before you got to the point of starting development?
– osullic
2 days ago
The films were both exposed in the same camera, yes? With similar storage/handling before/after exposure? Any other differences between the films before you got to the point of starting development?
– osullic
2 days ago
1
1
Now that you mention it, I do remember that when I opened one of the film canisters, the film seemed to be "sticking to itself" in a way I had never experienced before. I don't know if it was the FP4 or the Fomapan, but I suspect the first. I didn't think much of it at the time – just thought this was characteristic of this type of film (which I had never processed before). Apart from that, same camera, storage and handling and both films exposed maybe a week apart. I should perhaps also add that the films went through airport security (carry-on bag) between exposure and development.
– Kahovius
2 days ago
Now that you mention it, I do remember that when I opened one of the film canisters, the film seemed to be "sticking to itself" in a way I had never experienced before. I don't know if it was the FP4 or the Fomapan, but I suspect the first. I didn't think much of it at the time – just thought this was characteristic of this type of film (which I had never processed before). Apart from that, same camera, storage and handling and both films exposed maybe a week apart. I should perhaps also add that the films went through airport security (carry-on bag) between exposure and development.
– Kahovius
2 days ago
What kind of reels are you using?
– Blrfl
2 days ago
What kind of reels are you using?
– Blrfl
2 days ago
4
4
Can you describe the specific error in text, to make it easier for people with similarly problems to find in the future?
– mattdm
2 days ago
Can you describe the specific error in text, to make it easier for people with similarly problems to find in the future?
– mattdm
2 days ago
1
1
If one of the films was 'odd' out of the can, then it's likely the Foma. I love Foma (particularly the papers) but their film bases are not as good as Ilford's: they're often a significant pain to load.
– tfb
2 days ago
If one of the films was 'odd' out of the can, then it's likely the Foma. I love Foma (particularly the papers) but their film bases are not as good as Ilford's: they're often a significant pain to load.
– tfb
2 days ago
|
show 3 more comments
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
This looks to me as if you have botched loading the film onto the spiral, so that two wraps of the film were touching or very close to each other. When that happens you tend to get marks on the negs where developer hasn't really reached them properly.
(I tend to get this with 5x4 negs processed in a mod54: huge negs like that are very flexible so if you agitate too much they can come out of the slots and end up resting on each other.)
answered 2 days ago
tfbtfb
38916
3
I concur. This is a film loading error. I don't think you can save the damaged frames but -- do try re-fixing in normal room light. This procedure might provide some improvement. Do try!
– Alan Marcus
2 days ago
This is a good suggestion: if the dev didn't get to the frames then probably the fix did not either, so it is worth dunking them in fix for a bit to make sure they really are fixed, if you intend to keep them. As Alan says you can do this in white light.
– tfb
2 days ago
Many thanks for your answer, @tfb! I'll make sure to pay more attention to loading the film properly next time. @Alan Marcus: thanks for the suggestion! I tried re-fixing today. The negatives didn't improve visibly, however.
– Kahovius
yesterday
1
PRACTICE with an old strip of film in the light, then in the dark . It should be loose feeling in the reel, give it a gentle push in towards the reel after every turn around the reel to see if it is binding up. You should be able to push it in and out a few millimeters. If it does not have the "right feel" then back it out a little and retry. After much practice and experimenting you will know the "right feel"
– Alaska man
yesterday
add a comment |
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1 Answer
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This looks to me as if you have botched loading the film onto the spiral, so that two wraps of the film were touching or very close to each other. When that happens you tend to get marks on the negs where developer hasn't really reached them properly.
(I tend to get this with 5x4 negs processed in a mod54: huge negs like that are very flexible so if you agitate too much they can come out of the slots and end up resting on each other.)
answered 2 days ago
tfbtfb
38916
3
I concur. This is a film loading error. I don't think you can save the damaged frames but -- do try re-fixing in normal room light. This procedure might provide some improvement. Do try!
– Alan Marcus
2 days ago
This is a good suggestion: if the dev didn't get to the frames then probably the fix did not either, so it is worth dunking them in fix for a bit to make sure they really are fixed, if you intend to keep them. As Alan says you can do this in white light.
– tfb
2 days ago
Many thanks for your answer, @tfb! I'll make sure to pay more attention to loading the film properly next time. @Alan Marcus: thanks for the suggestion! I tried re-fixing today. The negatives didn't improve visibly, however.
– Kahovius
yesterday
1
PRACTICE with an old strip of film in the light, then in the dark . It should be loose feeling in the reel, give it a gentle push in towards the reel after every turn around the reel to see if it is binding up. You should be able to push it in and out a few millimeters. If it does not have the "right feel" then back it out a little and retry. After much practice and experimenting you will know the "right feel"
– Alaska man
yesterday
add a comment |
This looks to me as if you have botched loading the film onto the spiral, so that two wraps of the film were touching or very close to each other. When that happens you tend to get marks on the negs where developer hasn't really reached them properly.
(I tend to get this with 5x4 negs processed in a mod54: huge negs like that are very flexible so if you agitate too much they can come out of the slots and end up resting on each other.)
answered 2 days ago
tfbtfb
38916
3
I concur. This is a film loading error. I don't think you can save the damaged frames but -- do try re-fixing in normal room light. This procedure might provide some improvement. Do try!
– Alan Marcus
2 days ago
This is a good suggestion: if the dev didn't get to the frames then probably the fix did not either, so it is worth dunking them in fix for a bit to make sure they really are fixed, if you intend to keep them. As Alan says you can do this in white light.
– tfb
2 days ago
Many thanks for your answer, @tfb! I'll make sure to pay more attention to loading the film properly next time. @Alan Marcus: thanks for the suggestion! I tried re-fixing today. The negatives didn't improve visibly, however.
– Kahovius
yesterday
1
PRACTICE with an old strip of film in the light, then in the dark . It should be loose feeling in the reel, give it a gentle push in towards the reel after every turn around the reel to see if it is binding up. You should be able to push it in and out a few millimeters. If it does not have the "right feel" then back it out a little and retry. After much practice and experimenting you will know the "right feel"
– Alaska man
yesterday
add a comment |
This looks to me as if you have botched loading the film onto the spiral, so that two wraps of the film were touching or very close to each other. When that happens you tend to get marks on the negs where developer hasn't really reached them properly.
(I tend to get this with 5x4 negs processed in a mod54: huge negs like that are very flexible so if you agitate too much they can come out of the slots and end up resting on each other.)
answered 2 days ago
tfbtfb
38916
This looks to me as if you have botched loading the film onto the spiral, so that two wraps of the film were touching or very close to each other. When that happens you tend to get marks on the negs where developer hasn't really reached them properly.
(I tend to get this with 5x4 negs processed in a mod54: huge negs like that are very flexible so if you agitate too much they can come out of the slots and end up resting on each other.)
answered 2 days ago
tfbtfb
38916
answered 2 days ago
tfbtfb
38916
answered 2 days ago
tfbtfb
38916
answered 2 days ago
tfbtfb
38916
38916
3
I concur. This is a film loading error. I don't think you can save the damaged frames but -- do try re-fixing in normal room light. This procedure might provide some improvement. Do try!
– Alan Marcus
2 days ago
This is a good suggestion: if the dev didn't get to the frames then probably the fix did not either, so it is worth dunking them in fix for a bit to make sure they really are fixed, if you intend to keep them. As Alan says you can do this in white light.
– tfb
2 days ago
Many thanks for your answer, @tfb! I'll make sure to pay more attention to loading the film properly next time. @Alan Marcus: thanks for the suggestion! I tried re-fixing today. The negatives didn't improve visibly, however.
– Kahovius
yesterday
1
PRACTICE with an old strip of film in the light, then in the dark . It should be loose feeling in the reel, give it a gentle push in towards the reel after every turn around the reel to see if it is binding up. You should be able to push it in and out a few millimeters. If it does not have the "right feel" then back it out a little and retry. After much practice and experimenting you will know the "right feel"
– Alaska man
yesterday
add a comment |
3
I concur. This is a film loading error. I don't think you can save the damaged frames but -- do try re-fixing in normal room light. This procedure might provide some improvement. Do try!
– Alan Marcus
2 days ago
This is a good suggestion: if the dev didn't get to the frames then probably the fix did not either, so it is worth dunking them in fix for a bit to make sure they really are fixed, if you intend to keep them. As Alan says you can do this in white light.
– tfb
2 days ago
Many thanks for your answer, @tfb! I'll make sure to pay more attention to loading the film properly next time. @Alan Marcus: thanks for the suggestion! I tried re-fixing today. The negatives didn't improve visibly, however.
– Kahovius
yesterday
1
PRACTICE with an old strip of film in the light, then in the dark . It should be loose feeling in the reel, give it a gentle push in towards the reel after every turn around the reel to see if it is binding up. You should be able to push it in and out a few millimeters. If it does not have the "right feel" then back it out a little and retry. After much practice and experimenting you will know the "right feel"
– Alaska man
yesterday
3
3
I concur. This is a film loading error. I don't think you can save the damaged frames but -- do try re-fixing in normal room light. This procedure might provide some improvement. Do try!
– Alan Marcus
2 days ago
I concur. This is a film loading error. I don't think you can save the damaged frames but -- do try re-fixing in normal room light. This procedure might provide some improvement. Do try!
– Alan Marcus
2 days ago
This is a good suggestion: if the dev didn't get to the frames then probably the fix did not either, so it is worth dunking them in fix for a bit to make sure they really are fixed, if you intend to keep them. As Alan says you can do this in white light.
– tfb
2 days ago
This is a good suggestion: if the dev didn't get to the frames then probably the fix did not either, so it is worth dunking them in fix for a bit to make sure they really are fixed, if you intend to keep them. As Alan says you can do this in white light.
– tfb
2 days ago
Many thanks for your answer, @tfb! I'll make sure to pay more attention to loading the film properly next time. @Alan Marcus: thanks for the suggestion! I tried re-fixing today. The negatives didn't improve visibly, however.
– Kahovius
yesterday
Many thanks for your answer, @tfb! I'll make sure to pay more attention to loading the film properly next time. @Alan Marcus: thanks for the suggestion! I tried re-fixing today. The negatives didn't improve visibly, however.
– Kahovius
yesterday
1
1
PRACTICE with an old strip of film in the light, then in the dark . It should be loose feeling in the reel, give it a gentle push in towards the reel after every turn around the reel to see if it is binding up. You should be able to push it in and out a few millimeters. If it does not have the "right feel" then back it out a little and retry. After much practice and experimenting you will know the "right feel"
– Alaska man
yesterday
PRACTICE with an old strip of film in the light, then in the dark . It should be loose feeling in the reel, give it a gentle push in towards the reel after every turn around the reel to see if it is binding up. You should be able to push it in and out a few millimeters. If it does not have the "right feel" then back it out a little and retry. After much practice and experimenting you will know the "right feel"
– Alaska man
yesterday
add a comment |
Kahovius is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Kahovius is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Kahovius is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Kahovius is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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1
The films were both exposed in the same camera, yes? With similar storage/handling before/after exposure? Any other differences between the films before you got to the point of starting development?
– osullic
2 days ago
1
Now that you mention it, I do remember that when I opened one of the film canisters, the film seemed to be "sticking to itself" in a way I had never experienced before. I don't know if it was the FP4 or the Fomapan, but I suspect the first. I didn't think much of it at the time – just thought this was characteristic of this type of film (which I had never processed before). Apart from that, same camera, storage and handling and both films exposed maybe a week apart. I should perhaps also add that the films went through airport security (carry-on bag) between exposure and development.
– Kahovius
2 days ago
What kind of reels are you using?
– Blrfl
2 days ago
4
Can you describe the specific error in text, to make it easier for people with similarly problems to find in the future?
– mattdm
2 days ago
1
If one of the films was 'odd' out of the can, then it's likely the Foma. I love Foma (particularly the papers) but their film bases are not as good as Ilford's: they're often a significant pain to load.
– tfb
2 days ago