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Is Electric Central Heating worth it if using Solar Panels?
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I understand that electric heating is less efficient and comparatively more expensive than gas heating (propane or natural gas), but considering I live in Texas (a lot of sunlight) and I intend to install solar panels, would it be cheaper and more effective to install an electric heating system instead of gas heating?
Note: my home is about to be built, so the hassle of (re)moving pieces and pipes would not exist in this case.
hvac central-heating solar-panels electric-heat solar-thermal
|
show 8 more comments
I understand that electric heating is less efficient and comparatively more expensive than gas heating (propane or natural gas), but considering I live in Texas (a lot of sunlight) and I intend to install solar panels, would it be cheaper and more effective to install an electric heating system instead of gas heating?
Note: my home is about to be built, so the hassle of (re)moving pieces and pipes would not exist in this case.
hvac central-heating solar-panels electric-heat solar-thermal
Are you grid tied?
– Harper
yesterday
6
If you go this route, consider getting a heat pump. This is basically an whole-house AC that can run in reverse, and is more efficient than resistance heating.
– user3757614
yesterday
1
@JPhi1618 Hmm you need to check out solar thermal - much more effective for heating compared to solar pv...
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
1
@SolarMike, the problem with solar thermal is that it's hard to store, and you mostly need heating at times when the Sun isn't shining. Solar electric you can store in batteries or "store" on the grid in the form of net metering, while solar thermal needs large chunks of material to store the heat in.
– Mark
20 hours ago
2
Without working the numbers, this will not work out well, simply due to the 1st law of thermodynamics. None of the components on the market have (or reasonably will ever have) high enough efficiency to justify using PV for heating, when black paint is at least 5 times more efficient (not to mention cheaper).
– Aron
19 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
I understand that electric heating is less efficient and comparatively more expensive than gas heating (propane or natural gas), but considering I live in Texas (a lot of sunlight) and I intend to install solar panels, would it be cheaper and more effective to install an electric heating system instead of gas heating?
Note: my home is about to be built, so the hassle of (re)moving pieces and pipes would not exist in this case.
hvac central-heating solar-panels electric-heat solar-thermal
I understand that electric heating is less efficient and comparatively more expensive than gas heating (propane or natural gas), but considering I live in Texas (a lot of sunlight) and I intend to install solar panels, would it be cheaper and more effective to install an electric heating system instead of gas heating?
Note: my home is about to be built, so the hassle of (re)moving pieces and pipes would not exist in this case.
hvac central-heating solar-panels electric-heat solar-thermal
hvac central-heating solar-panels electric-heat solar-thermal
asked yesterday
PhilPhil
295313
295313
Are you grid tied?
– Harper
yesterday
6
If you go this route, consider getting a heat pump. This is basically an whole-house AC that can run in reverse, and is more efficient than resistance heating.
– user3757614
yesterday
1
@JPhi1618 Hmm you need to check out solar thermal - much more effective for heating compared to solar pv...
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
1
@SolarMike, the problem with solar thermal is that it's hard to store, and you mostly need heating at times when the Sun isn't shining. Solar electric you can store in batteries or "store" on the grid in the form of net metering, while solar thermal needs large chunks of material to store the heat in.
– Mark
20 hours ago
2
Without working the numbers, this will not work out well, simply due to the 1st law of thermodynamics. None of the components on the market have (or reasonably will ever have) high enough efficiency to justify using PV for heating, when black paint is at least 5 times more efficient (not to mention cheaper).
– Aron
19 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
Are you grid tied?
– Harper
yesterday
6
If you go this route, consider getting a heat pump. This is basically an whole-house AC that can run in reverse, and is more efficient than resistance heating.
– user3757614
yesterday
1
@JPhi1618 Hmm you need to check out solar thermal - much more effective for heating compared to solar pv...
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
1
@SolarMike, the problem with solar thermal is that it's hard to store, and you mostly need heating at times when the Sun isn't shining. Solar electric you can store in batteries or "store" on the grid in the form of net metering, while solar thermal needs large chunks of material to store the heat in.
– Mark
20 hours ago
2
Without working the numbers, this will not work out well, simply due to the 1st law of thermodynamics. None of the components on the market have (or reasonably will ever have) high enough efficiency to justify using PV for heating, when black paint is at least 5 times more efficient (not to mention cheaper).
– Aron
19 hours ago
Are you grid tied?
– Harper
yesterday
Are you grid tied?
– Harper
yesterday
6
6
If you go this route, consider getting a heat pump. This is basically an whole-house AC that can run in reverse, and is more efficient than resistance heating.
– user3757614
yesterday
If you go this route, consider getting a heat pump. This is basically an whole-house AC that can run in reverse, and is more efficient than resistance heating.
– user3757614
yesterday
1
1
@JPhi1618 Hmm you need to check out solar thermal - much more effective for heating compared to solar pv...
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
@JPhi1618 Hmm you need to check out solar thermal - much more effective for heating compared to solar pv...
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
1
1
@SolarMike, the problem with solar thermal is that it's hard to store, and you mostly need heating at times when the Sun isn't shining. Solar electric you can store in batteries or "store" on the grid in the form of net metering, while solar thermal needs large chunks of material to store the heat in.
– Mark
20 hours ago
@SolarMike, the problem with solar thermal is that it's hard to store, and you mostly need heating at times when the Sun isn't shining. Solar electric you can store in batteries or "store" on the grid in the form of net metering, while solar thermal needs large chunks of material to store the heat in.
– Mark
20 hours ago
2
2
Without working the numbers, this will not work out well, simply due to the 1st law of thermodynamics. None of the components on the market have (or reasonably will ever have) high enough efficiency to justify using PV for heating, when black paint is at least 5 times more efficient (not to mention cheaper).
– Aron
19 hours ago
Without working the numbers, this will not work out well, simply due to the 1st law of thermodynamics. None of the components on the market have (or reasonably will ever have) high enough efficiency to justify using PV for heating, when black paint is at least 5 times more efficient (not to mention cheaper).
– Aron
19 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
On a new build, your very first stop is passive solar design. Strutting forward and designing a bad old stickhouse, and then bolting on solar as an afterthought, is wasteful.
Passive solar design means engineering the building so it does not need active heating except on rare occasion . One way to make passive solar work is to angle the windows and overhangs so the buildings reject sun by summer, but drink up sun by winter... And then capture the solar heat energy in the building's rather considerable thermal mass. This does not happen by default obviously, you have to swerve out of your way to design the building for that. Design time is the time to do this.
Cheap resistive electric heat is a good complement to passive solar design, since you so rarely need active heat.
Another design aspect is heat pumps, though with passive solar design they are 99% of the time in A/C mode. And ideally you want to interchange with groundwater as your ultimate heat sink, since it is cooler than you want your house to be, and therefore in A/C mode, your heat pump is .pushing heat downhill. Which makes it more efficient.
The overall point is, don't design for inefficiency just because it is conventional, and then try to bolt on efficiency as an afterthought. Really explore the state of the art.
add a comment |
Assuming that you are (a) on the regular electric utility grid and (b) are on the regular natural gas delivery system (i.e., don't require propane deliveries), as a general rule, natural gas heating will be most cost-effective in most parts of the US. If you are not on the regular (utility) natural gas system then electricity has some advantages. Alternatively, if you are not on the regular electricity grid then solar panels have huge advantages (i.e., better than just relying on diesel or natural gas generators).
But assuming this is a normal (utility gas & electric) setup, I would separate the solar panel issue from the heating issue. Since you are in Texas, air conditioning is probably more critical much of the year than heating. Plus, solar panels only work during the day and the biggest heating need (and some times of the year the only heating need) is at night. So solar panels without battery storage (e.g., Tesla Powerwall) would help with overall power costs but not much with your heating per se.
Solar Panels without Battery Storage
Solar panels without battery storage are typically used to generate power that is converted from DC to AC (inverted) and fed into the local grid. Effectively, on the best days you actually generate more than you consume (though air conditioning can have a huge impact on this) and the electric company pays you for providing power when they need it the most. Depending on local electricity tariffs, you may do really well with this based on "peak demand" or it may be less helpful based primarily on usage (kWh).
Solar Panels with Battery Storage
If you add battery storage (a significant additional upfront cost) then you gain a few advantages:
- Power Shifting - If you generate more than you need during the day, you store up extra energy to use at night. If you don't get much from the power company for generated power then this can save you more (by reducing total usage) than you would gain by selling the excess to the utility.
- Battery Backup - Instead of just a small battery backup for your computer, you get a battery backup for your whole house - lights, computer, TV, heater (if you use natural gas, you need some electricity for the controls & blower - which the battery backup can supply quite easily - but I wouldn't put straight electric heating on a battery backup system), etc.
Electric Heat
There are a number of different types of electric heat. Resistance heating is basically big coils - like a toaster for your house. Resistance heating is very simple (and therefore relatively inexpensive) but is very inefficient. Actually, it is efficient in converting electricity to heat, but that is economically inefficient compared to other fuels, unless you actually produce all your power via solar panels (and therefore don't pay the utility for electricity), but typical residential solar panel installations only provide a fraction of total electricity used.
A heat pump - essentially an air conditioner that can run in reverse to produce heat instead of taking away heat - is a great alternative. It can be more cost effective than resistance heating, providing you don't get really cold. When it gets really cold, a heat pump will use "emergency heat", which is typically resistance heating, because a normal heat pump simply can't do much if the outside air is too cold. Fortunately, in Texas that works well - e.g., Dallas has average lows in the winter in the 30s, so emergency heat wouldn't need to be used very often.
If for some reason a heat pump is not an option (including "just don't like 'em" which I think is much more of a problem in the colder places where they don't work as well), then natural gas furnace (using the same air handler as the air conditioning) is the way to go.
Do the Math
A lot will depend on:
- Cost of Solar Panels
- Cost of Battery Storage
- Local cost of electricity
- Local cost of natural gas
- Utility Payment (if any) for your solar panel generated electricity
- Expected total & peak electricity usage
My gut feeling is that with the gradually dropping cost of both solar panels and battery storage, a full solar + battery system and a heat pump for heating & cooling would likely make sense, particularly as part of new construction in a warm & sunny place like Texas. But your mileage may vary.
1
@J... have a look at solar thermal, given it is possible in regions with half the solar insolation then it should not be much of a challenge in Texas...
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
2
@SolarMike The problem is that solar thermal might do quite well for heating in the winter. But in Texas that system would be useless 3/4 of the time. Solar electric panels would produce power all year long, though obviously more in the summer than in the winter.
– manassehkatz
21 hours ago
1
@manassehkatz I read a report of a house designed to avoid AC by using basically a double roof - saved the occupants a wedge of money... In Australia iirc
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
1
@SolarMike The question is what works in Texas. Dallas hits an average high of 96 F in July and August.
– manassehkatz
21 hours ago
1
Consider the "value of money" too - a 20 year payback window on initial costs is terrible. Ideally any sunk cost should be saved/earned back in 1~2 years, otherwise you're better off investing that capital cost and earning interest. But that becomes a financial question.
– Criggie
18 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
If you design the solar thermal correctly, then given the annual solar insolation ( higher than my location in EU by about a factor of 2) then with good insulation you can avoid heating at all.
But you will need to maximize the passive solar gain - allowing the sun's energy to enter the building in winter for example.
Use underfloor heating driven from the solar thermal collectors and its associated hot water storage tank - this is low temperature compared to "normal" radiators.
3
I'm confused as to how I can avoid heating at all. I know Texas is hot, but in the winter temperatures drop to as low as -3 C
– Phil
yesterday
6
Wow, -3C, here in Switzerland we go down to -10C and I helped build a building which is solar heated all year, with no other form of heating. Just need an architect who knows, along with an energy engineer to make sure the design is optimal. I had already compared your Texas insolation to what we get here...
– Solar Mike
yesterday
2
The average temperature for July appears to be 18 C in Switzerland, as opposed to 30 C in Texas. "Maximizing solar gain" when the average high is 35 C could make for some uncomfortable afternoons. That or spending thousands more on cooling to save hundreds on heating.
– Matthew Gauthier
22 hours ago
2
@MatthewGauthier passive solar gain ... in winter : read it all to understand. Just so you know, summer temperatures can easily get 30+C in Switzerland. Knowing and understanding weather data when wanting to build to these standards is crucial. One that can be useful is "degree-days"...
– Solar Mike
22 hours ago
1
@SolarMike Was this a typical installation with minor changes, or basically a one-off designed for the specific conditions? I've read a couple cool case-studies on net-zero or net-negative energy usage homes, but they were completely designed to be net-zero, and I don't think they were very scalable in production. I'm curious if they are able to standardize a regular home design to account for pure solar heating, or if it requires considerable effort per installation.
– JMac
22 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
Start with efficiency
Harper's overall point about starting with an efficient envelope is dead-on; managing solar gains is going to be a huge part of it down in Texas, and you'll also need to be careful with insulation and air barriers to avoid trapping water vapor or moisture in wall or roof assemblies.
Vented attics and ducts do not mix!
One classical mistake in Southern homebuilding is the use of a vented attic to house HVAC equipment and ductwork. This not only shortens the life of the equipment due to the high ambient temperatures, but wastes valuable power and capacity on overcoming heat gain through the ducts during cooling seasons, often to the tune of 10-25%.
As a result, if you are using a ducted system, you are far better off putting the ducts inside the building envelope fully, one way or another. "Hot roof" configurations work well in Texas due to the lack of an ice dam concern, but basically require a roofing system that can withstand high heat, which limits you to standing-seam, slate, or tile as a practical matter. There are also configurations that form a mechanical cockloft space between the finish ceiling and the ceiling envelope plane, if you do not mind the extra structural complexity that entails.
Beware the Ductopus, Strangler of Air Conditioners!
Atop this, Southern residential construction compounds the error of putting ducts in the attic with the aid of a few bags of flex and a harried installer or three, resulting in the organic, many-tentacled monstrosity known as a "ductopus" spawning in one's attic. The unstretched flex duct creates excess friction losses, which increase static pressure and reduce the efficiency of the blower at delivering conditioned air to indoor spaces, thus forcing further upsizing of the system to overcome this condition.
The antidote to this is proper duct design -- applying ACCA Manual D rigorously and avoiding the indiscriminate use of flex will give you a fighting chance of being able to use Manuals J and S to right-size your HVAC system for your house, instead of taking the "bigger is better" approach to the problem, because bigger is not better when it comes to HVAC, especially if you are building a high-performance home. Of course, you will want to test your ducts when installed to ensure that the static pressure across the blower is acceptably low; this is a good measure of the overall workmanship of the HVAC techs, as well.
Play to your strengths
Texas is a mostly-cooling climate, by and large. As a result, since you will want some sort of air conditioning anyway, the logical choice for turning electricity into heat here is a heat pump. Furthermore, the use of electric resistance heat is a gross waste of power when your electricity is coming from solar panels; as a result, you will want a heat-pump setup that avoids heat-strip "emergency heat".
This leads us squarely to mini-split heat pumps, of both the ducted and ductless varieties. Instead of leaving the blower on full-bore and using resistance heat to both fuel the defrost process and make up the missing heat, mini-splits stop their indoor blower during defrost, thus allowing them to defrost without resistance heat or blowing cold air everywhere.
Mini-splits also have the advantage of being able to use either multiple ductless heads or low-profile, in-ceiling ducted heads that make going without a full-sized attic or basement to house HVAC ductwork an easier design proposition. (There are also full-sized air-handlers available for today's mini-splits if you want to use one to drive a fully ducted system. You do need to be careful with duct design with this approach, though, as their blowers can't provide quite as much static pressure as the ones on more typical split-system air-handlers.)
Why not gas?
The issue with gas in a climate like yours is that for you, gas furnaces come in one size: too big! For a climate with light heating loads like yours, even the smallest gas furnaces are going to be vastly oversized compared to your actual needs, especially in a high-performance building envelope as heating loads fall off faster than cooling loads when you add insulation and remove air leakage paths.
Given the comfort and efficiency drawbacks of an oversized furnace, this makes mini-split heat more attractive, especially with today's mini-splits that can handle just about anything Texas will throw at them for outdoor temperatures. However, I would not completely discount gas heat: modern modulating-condensing gas hydronic boilers are highly efficient, and can also feed an indirect hot water heater to provide domestic hot water as well as feeding an air-handler coil, radiators, or floor heat for space heating.
How can I determine the efficiency of my home?
– Phil
3 hours ago
@Phil basically it's about combining all the forms of heat loss: the two main ones being conductive (through the surfaces of the building envelope) and ventilated. You can determine the former by working out what is in your walls and its thickness. You can work out the latter with an air test. greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/…
– Dan Gravell
1 hour ago
Wait. They intentionally put A/C units in hot places? Talk about Sisyphus pushing his stone!!! (my way, you interchange with ground, so your ultimate heatsink is cooler than you want your house, that way Sisyphus is pushing downhill...)
– Harper
3 mins ago
add a comment |
If you have enough solar in place to manage cooling during the summer, you probably have enough solar to manage heating during the winter. The question is if you can get more money from selling the solar to the grid, and using that money to buy gas for heating. The answer is usually yes, as long as you can sell to the grid at a decent price.
Probably better for the environment, too. Most electricity comes from fossil fuels, and that's less efficient than burning them for heat. By pushing solar to the grid, you can reduce the fossil fuels needed for power.
add a comment |
My preferred way is small split ac, reversible, COP of 1 to 3. Service can be expensive.
New contributor
COP of less than 3 is low, good stuff with good control should be +4 when designed to match the loads properly...
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
2
@SolarMike COP depends on the outside temperature. You're thinking of COP at standard conditions, which are not applicable to many areas, and lead to incorrect sizing. The most important part of selecting heat pumps is to know the outside temperature where COP hits 1, as well as knowing when resistance heat is necessary.
– user71659
20 hours ago
add a comment |
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6 Answers
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6 Answers
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On a new build, your very first stop is passive solar design. Strutting forward and designing a bad old stickhouse, and then bolting on solar as an afterthought, is wasteful.
Passive solar design means engineering the building so it does not need active heating except on rare occasion . One way to make passive solar work is to angle the windows and overhangs so the buildings reject sun by summer, but drink up sun by winter... And then capture the solar heat energy in the building's rather considerable thermal mass. This does not happen by default obviously, you have to swerve out of your way to design the building for that. Design time is the time to do this.
Cheap resistive electric heat is a good complement to passive solar design, since you so rarely need active heat.
Another design aspect is heat pumps, though with passive solar design they are 99% of the time in A/C mode. And ideally you want to interchange with groundwater as your ultimate heat sink, since it is cooler than you want your house to be, and therefore in A/C mode, your heat pump is .pushing heat downhill. Which makes it more efficient.
The overall point is, don't design for inefficiency just because it is conventional, and then try to bolt on efficiency as an afterthought. Really explore the state of the art.
add a comment |
On a new build, your very first stop is passive solar design. Strutting forward and designing a bad old stickhouse, and then bolting on solar as an afterthought, is wasteful.
Passive solar design means engineering the building so it does not need active heating except on rare occasion . One way to make passive solar work is to angle the windows and overhangs so the buildings reject sun by summer, but drink up sun by winter... And then capture the solar heat energy in the building's rather considerable thermal mass. This does not happen by default obviously, you have to swerve out of your way to design the building for that. Design time is the time to do this.
Cheap resistive electric heat is a good complement to passive solar design, since you so rarely need active heat.
Another design aspect is heat pumps, though with passive solar design they are 99% of the time in A/C mode. And ideally you want to interchange with groundwater as your ultimate heat sink, since it is cooler than you want your house to be, and therefore in A/C mode, your heat pump is .pushing heat downhill. Which makes it more efficient.
The overall point is, don't design for inefficiency just because it is conventional, and then try to bolt on efficiency as an afterthought. Really explore the state of the art.
add a comment |
On a new build, your very first stop is passive solar design. Strutting forward and designing a bad old stickhouse, and then bolting on solar as an afterthought, is wasteful.
Passive solar design means engineering the building so it does not need active heating except on rare occasion . One way to make passive solar work is to angle the windows and overhangs so the buildings reject sun by summer, but drink up sun by winter... And then capture the solar heat energy in the building's rather considerable thermal mass. This does not happen by default obviously, you have to swerve out of your way to design the building for that. Design time is the time to do this.
Cheap resistive electric heat is a good complement to passive solar design, since you so rarely need active heat.
Another design aspect is heat pumps, though with passive solar design they are 99% of the time in A/C mode. And ideally you want to interchange with groundwater as your ultimate heat sink, since it is cooler than you want your house to be, and therefore in A/C mode, your heat pump is .pushing heat downhill. Which makes it more efficient.
The overall point is, don't design for inefficiency just because it is conventional, and then try to bolt on efficiency as an afterthought. Really explore the state of the art.
On a new build, your very first stop is passive solar design. Strutting forward and designing a bad old stickhouse, and then bolting on solar as an afterthought, is wasteful.
Passive solar design means engineering the building so it does not need active heating except on rare occasion . One way to make passive solar work is to angle the windows and overhangs so the buildings reject sun by summer, but drink up sun by winter... And then capture the solar heat energy in the building's rather considerable thermal mass. This does not happen by default obviously, you have to swerve out of your way to design the building for that. Design time is the time to do this.
Cheap resistive electric heat is a good complement to passive solar design, since you so rarely need active heat.
Another design aspect is heat pumps, though with passive solar design they are 99% of the time in A/C mode. And ideally you want to interchange with groundwater as your ultimate heat sink, since it is cooler than you want your house to be, and therefore in A/C mode, your heat pump is .pushing heat downhill. Which makes it more efficient.
The overall point is, don't design for inefficiency just because it is conventional, and then try to bolt on efficiency as an afterthought. Really explore the state of the art.
edited 19 hours ago
manassehkatz
11.3k1542
11.3k1542
answered 19 hours ago
HarperHarper
77.3k450154
77.3k450154
add a comment |
add a comment |
Assuming that you are (a) on the regular electric utility grid and (b) are on the regular natural gas delivery system (i.e., don't require propane deliveries), as a general rule, natural gas heating will be most cost-effective in most parts of the US. If you are not on the regular (utility) natural gas system then electricity has some advantages. Alternatively, if you are not on the regular electricity grid then solar panels have huge advantages (i.e., better than just relying on diesel or natural gas generators).
But assuming this is a normal (utility gas & electric) setup, I would separate the solar panel issue from the heating issue. Since you are in Texas, air conditioning is probably more critical much of the year than heating. Plus, solar panels only work during the day and the biggest heating need (and some times of the year the only heating need) is at night. So solar panels without battery storage (e.g., Tesla Powerwall) would help with overall power costs but not much with your heating per se.
Solar Panels without Battery Storage
Solar panels without battery storage are typically used to generate power that is converted from DC to AC (inverted) and fed into the local grid. Effectively, on the best days you actually generate more than you consume (though air conditioning can have a huge impact on this) and the electric company pays you for providing power when they need it the most. Depending on local electricity tariffs, you may do really well with this based on "peak demand" or it may be less helpful based primarily on usage (kWh).
Solar Panels with Battery Storage
If you add battery storage (a significant additional upfront cost) then you gain a few advantages:
- Power Shifting - If you generate more than you need during the day, you store up extra energy to use at night. If you don't get much from the power company for generated power then this can save you more (by reducing total usage) than you would gain by selling the excess to the utility.
- Battery Backup - Instead of just a small battery backup for your computer, you get a battery backup for your whole house - lights, computer, TV, heater (if you use natural gas, you need some electricity for the controls & blower - which the battery backup can supply quite easily - but I wouldn't put straight electric heating on a battery backup system), etc.
Electric Heat
There are a number of different types of electric heat. Resistance heating is basically big coils - like a toaster for your house. Resistance heating is very simple (and therefore relatively inexpensive) but is very inefficient. Actually, it is efficient in converting electricity to heat, but that is economically inefficient compared to other fuels, unless you actually produce all your power via solar panels (and therefore don't pay the utility for electricity), but typical residential solar panel installations only provide a fraction of total electricity used.
A heat pump - essentially an air conditioner that can run in reverse to produce heat instead of taking away heat - is a great alternative. It can be more cost effective than resistance heating, providing you don't get really cold. When it gets really cold, a heat pump will use "emergency heat", which is typically resistance heating, because a normal heat pump simply can't do much if the outside air is too cold. Fortunately, in Texas that works well - e.g., Dallas has average lows in the winter in the 30s, so emergency heat wouldn't need to be used very often.
If for some reason a heat pump is not an option (including "just don't like 'em" which I think is much more of a problem in the colder places where they don't work as well), then natural gas furnace (using the same air handler as the air conditioning) is the way to go.
Do the Math
A lot will depend on:
- Cost of Solar Panels
- Cost of Battery Storage
- Local cost of electricity
- Local cost of natural gas
- Utility Payment (if any) for your solar panel generated electricity
- Expected total & peak electricity usage
My gut feeling is that with the gradually dropping cost of both solar panels and battery storage, a full solar + battery system and a heat pump for heating & cooling would likely make sense, particularly as part of new construction in a warm & sunny place like Texas. But your mileage may vary.
1
@J... have a look at solar thermal, given it is possible in regions with half the solar insolation then it should not be much of a challenge in Texas...
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
2
@SolarMike The problem is that solar thermal might do quite well for heating in the winter. But in Texas that system would be useless 3/4 of the time. Solar electric panels would produce power all year long, though obviously more in the summer than in the winter.
– manassehkatz
21 hours ago
1
@manassehkatz I read a report of a house designed to avoid AC by using basically a double roof - saved the occupants a wedge of money... In Australia iirc
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
1
@SolarMike The question is what works in Texas. Dallas hits an average high of 96 F in July and August.
– manassehkatz
21 hours ago
1
Consider the "value of money" too - a 20 year payback window on initial costs is terrible. Ideally any sunk cost should be saved/earned back in 1~2 years, otherwise you're better off investing that capital cost and earning interest. But that becomes a financial question.
– Criggie
18 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
Assuming that you are (a) on the regular electric utility grid and (b) are on the regular natural gas delivery system (i.e., don't require propane deliveries), as a general rule, natural gas heating will be most cost-effective in most parts of the US. If you are not on the regular (utility) natural gas system then electricity has some advantages. Alternatively, if you are not on the regular electricity grid then solar panels have huge advantages (i.e., better than just relying on diesel or natural gas generators).
But assuming this is a normal (utility gas & electric) setup, I would separate the solar panel issue from the heating issue. Since you are in Texas, air conditioning is probably more critical much of the year than heating. Plus, solar panels only work during the day and the biggest heating need (and some times of the year the only heating need) is at night. So solar panels without battery storage (e.g., Tesla Powerwall) would help with overall power costs but not much with your heating per se.
Solar Panels without Battery Storage
Solar panels without battery storage are typically used to generate power that is converted from DC to AC (inverted) and fed into the local grid. Effectively, on the best days you actually generate more than you consume (though air conditioning can have a huge impact on this) and the electric company pays you for providing power when they need it the most. Depending on local electricity tariffs, you may do really well with this based on "peak demand" or it may be less helpful based primarily on usage (kWh).
Solar Panels with Battery Storage
If you add battery storage (a significant additional upfront cost) then you gain a few advantages:
- Power Shifting - If you generate more than you need during the day, you store up extra energy to use at night. If you don't get much from the power company for generated power then this can save you more (by reducing total usage) than you would gain by selling the excess to the utility.
- Battery Backup - Instead of just a small battery backup for your computer, you get a battery backup for your whole house - lights, computer, TV, heater (if you use natural gas, you need some electricity for the controls & blower - which the battery backup can supply quite easily - but I wouldn't put straight electric heating on a battery backup system), etc.
Electric Heat
There are a number of different types of electric heat. Resistance heating is basically big coils - like a toaster for your house. Resistance heating is very simple (and therefore relatively inexpensive) but is very inefficient. Actually, it is efficient in converting electricity to heat, but that is economically inefficient compared to other fuels, unless you actually produce all your power via solar panels (and therefore don't pay the utility for electricity), but typical residential solar panel installations only provide a fraction of total electricity used.
A heat pump - essentially an air conditioner that can run in reverse to produce heat instead of taking away heat - is a great alternative. It can be more cost effective than resistance heating, providing you don't get really cold. When it gets really cold, a heat pump will use "emergency heat", which is typically resistance heating, because a normal heat pump simply can't do much if the outside air is too cold. Fortunately, in Texas that works well - e.g., Dallas has average lows in the winter in the 30s, so emergency heat wouldn't need to be used very often.
If for some reason a heat pump is not an option (including "just don't like 'em" which I think is much more of a problem in the colder places where they don't work as well), then natural gas furnace (using the same air handler as the air conditioning) is the way to go.
Do the Math
A lot will depend on:
- Cost of Solar Panels
- Cost of Battery Storage
- Local cost of electricity
- Local cost of natural gas
- Utility Payment (if any) for your solar panel generated electricity
- Expected total & peak electricity usage
My gut feeling is that with the gradually dropping cost of both solar panels and battery storage, a full solar + battery system and a heat pump for heating & cooling would likely make sense, particularly as part of new construction in a warm & sunny place like Texas. But your mileage may vary.
1
@J... have a look at solar thermal, given it is possible in regions with half the solar insolation then it should not be much of a challenge in Texas...
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
2
@SolarMike The problem is that solar thermal might do quite well for heating in the winter. But in Texas that system would be useless 3/4 of the time. Solar electric panels would produce power all year long, though obviously more in the summer than in the winter.
– manassehkatz
21 hours ago
1
@manassehkatz I read a report of a house designed to avoid AC by using basically a double roof - saved the occupants a wedge of money... In Australia iirc
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
1
@SolarMike The question is what works in Texas. Dallas hits an average high of 96 F in July and August.
– manassehkatz
21 hours ago
1
Consider the "value of money" too - a 20 year payback window on initial costs is terrible. Ideally any sunk cost should be saved/earned back in 1~2 years, otherwise you're better off investing that capital cost and earning interest. But that becomes a financial question.
– Criggie
18 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
Assuming that you are (a) on the regular electric utility grid and (b) are on the regular natural gas delivery system (i.e., don't require propane deliveries), as a general rule, natural gas heating will be most cost-effective in most parts of the US. If you are not on the regular (utility) natural gas system then electricity has some advantages. Alternatively, if you are not on the regular electricity grid then solar panels have huge advantages (i.e., better than just relying on diesel or natural gas generators).
But assuming this is a normal (utility gas & electric) setup, I would separate the solar panel issue from the heating issue. Since you are in Texas, air conditioning is probably more critical much of the year than heating. Plus, solar panels only work during the day and the biggest heating need (and some times of the year the only heating need) is at night. So solar panels without battery storage (e.g., Tesla Powerwall) would help with overall power costs but not much with your heating per se.
Solar Panels without Battery Storage
Solar panels without battery storage are typically used to generate power that is converted from DC to AC (inverted) and fed into the local grid. Effectively, on the best days you actually generate more than you consume (though air conditioning can have a huge impact on this) and the electric company pays you for providing power when they need it the most. Depending on local electricity tariffs, you may do really well with this based on "peak demand" or it may be less helpful based primarily on usage (kWh).
Solar Panels with Battery Storage
If you add battery storage (a significant additional upfront cost) then you gain a few advantages:
- Power Shifting - If you generate more than you need during the day, you store up extra energy to use at night. If you don't get much from the power company for generated power then this can save you more (by reducing total usage) than you would gain by selling the excess to the utility.
- Battery Backup - Instead of just a small battery backup for your computer, you get a battery backup for your whole house - lights, computer, TV, heater (if you use natural gas, you need some electricity for the controls & blower - which the battery backup can supply quite easily - but I wouldn't put straight electric heating on a battery backup system), etc.
Electric Heat
There are a number of different types of electric heat. Resistance heating is basically big coils - like a toaster for your house. Resistance heating is very simple (and therefore relatively inexpensive) but is very inefficient. Actually, it is efficient in converting electricity to heat, but that is economically inefficient compared to other fuels, unless you actually produce all your power via solar panels (and therefore don't pay the utility for electricity), but typical residential solar panel installations only provide a fraction of total electricity used.
A heat pump - essentially an air conditioner that can run in reverse to produce heat instead of taking away heat - is a great alternative. It can be more cost effective than resistance heating, providing you don't get really cold. When it gets really cold, a heat pump will use "emergency heat", which is typically resistance heating, because a normal heat pump simply can't do much if the outside air is too cold. Fortunately, in Texas that works well - e.g., Dallas has average lows in the winter in the 30s, so emergency heat wouldn't need to be used very often.
If for some reason a heat pump is not an option (including "just don't like 'em" which I think is much more of a problem in the colder places where they don't work as well), then natural gas furnace (using the same air handler as the air conditioning) is the way to go.
Do the Math
A lot will depend on:
- Cost of Solar Panels
- Cost of Battery Storage
- Local cost of electricity
- Local cost of natural gas
- Utility Payment (if any) for your solar panel generated electricity
- Expected total & peak electricity usage
My gut feeling is that with the gradually dropping cost of both solar panels and battery storage, a full solar + battery system and a heat pump for heating & cooling would likely make sense, particularly as part of new construction in a warm & sunny place like Texas. But your mileage may vary.
Assuming that you are (a) on the regular electric utility grid and (b) are on the regular natural gas delivery system (i.e., don't require propane deliveries), as a general rule, natural gas heating will be most cost-effective in most parts of the US. If you are not on the regular (utility) natural gas system then electricity has some advantages. Alternatively, if you are not on the regular electricity grid then solar panels have huge advantages (i.e., better than just relying on diesel or natural gas generators).
But assuming this is a normal (utility gas & electric) setup, I would separate the solar panel issue from the heating issue. Since you are in Texas, air conditioning is probably more critical much of the year than heating. Plus, solar panels only work during the day and the biggest heating need (and some times of the year the only heating need) is at night. So solar panels without battery storage (e.g., Tesla Powerwall) would help with overall power costs but not much with your heating per se.
Solar Panels without Battery Storage
Solar panels without battery storage are typically used to generate power that is converted from DC to AC (inverted) and fed into the local grid. Effectively, on the best days you actually generate more than you consume (though air conditioning can have a huge impact on this) and the electric company pays you for providing power when they need it the most. Depending on local electricity tariffs, you may do really well with this based on "peak demand" or it may be less helpful based primarily on usage (kWh).
Solar Panels with Battery Storage
If you add battery storage (a significant additional upfront cost) then you gain a few advantages:
- Power Shifting - If you generate more than you need during the day, you store up extra energy to use at night. If you don't get much from the power company for generated power then this can save you more (by reducing total usage) than you would gain by selling the excess to the utility.
- Battery Backup - Instead of just a small battery backup for your computer, you get a battery backup for your whole house - lights, computer, TV, heater (if you use natural gas, you need some electricity for the controls & blower - which the battery backup can supply quite easily - but I wouldn't put straight electric heating on a battery backup system), etc.
Electric Heat
There are a number of different types of electric heat. Resistance heating is basically big coils - like a toaster for your house. Resistance heating is very simple (and therefore relatively inexpensive) but is very inefficient. Actually, it is efficient in converting electricity to heat, but that is economically inefficient compared to other fuels, unless you actually produce all your power via solar panels (and therefore don't pay the utility for electricity), but typical residential solar panel installations only provide a fraction of total electricity used.
A heat pump - essentially an air conditioner that can run in reverse to produce heat instead of taking away heat - is a great alternative. It can be more cost effective than resistance heating, providing you don't get really cold. When it gets really cold, a heat pump will use "emergency heat", which is typically resistance heating, because a normal heat pump simply can't do much if the outside air is too cold. Fortunately, in Texas that works well - e.g., Dallas has average lows in the winter in the 30s, so emergency heat wouldn't need to be used very often.
If for some reason a heat pump is not an option (including "just don't like 'em" which I think is much more of a problem in the colder places where they don't work as well), then natural gas furnace (using the same air handler as the air conditioning) is the way to go.
Do the Math
A lot will depend on:
- Cost of Solar Panels
- Cost of Battery Storage
- Local cost of electricity
- Local cost of natural gas
- Utility Payment (if any) for your solar panel generated electricity
- Expected total & peak electricity usage
My gut feeling is that with the gradually dropping cost of both solar panels and battery storage, a full solar + battery system and a heat pump for heating & cooling would likely make sense, particularly as part of new construction in a warm & sunny place like Texas. But your mileage may vary.
answered yesterday
manassehkatzmanassehkatz
11.3k1542
11.3k1542
1
@J... have a look at solar thermal, given it is possible in regions with half the solar insolation then it should not be much of a challenge in Texas...
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
2
@SolarMike The problem is that solar thermal might do quite well for heating in the winter. But in Texas that system would be useless 3/4 of the time. Solar electric panels would produce power all year long, though obviously more in the summer than in the winter.
– manassehkatz
21 hours ago
1
@manassehkatz I read a report of a house designed to avoid AC by using basically a double roof - saved the occupants a wedge of money... In Australia iirc
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
1
@SolarMike The question is what works in Texas. Dallas hits an average high of 96 F in July and August.
– manassehkatz
21 hours ago
1
Consider the "value of money" too - a 20 year payback window on initial costs is terrible. Ideally any sunk cost should be saved/earned back in 1~2 years, otherwise you're better off investing that capital cost and earning interest. But that becomes a financial question.
– Criggie
18 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
1
@J... have a look at solar thermal, given it is possible in regions with half the solar insolation then it should not be much of a challenge in Texas...
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
2
@SolarMike The problem is that solar thermal might do quite well for heating in the winter. But in Texas that system would be useless 3/4 of the time. Solar electric panels would produce power all year long, though obviously more in the summer than in the winter.
– manassehkatz
21 hours ago
1
@manassehkatz I read a report of a house designed to avoid AC by using basically a double roof - saved the occupants a wedge of money... In Australia iirc
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
1
@SolarMike The question is what works in Texas. Dallas hits an average high of 96 F in July and August.
– manassehkatz
21 hours ago
1
Consider the "value of money" too - a 20 year payback window on initial costs is terrible. Ideally any sunk cost should be saved/earned back in 1~2 years, otherwise you're better off investing that capital cost and earning interest. But that becomes a financial question.
– Criggie
18 hours ago
1
1
@J... have a look at solar thermal, given it is possible in regions with half the solar insolation then it should not be much of a challenge in Texas...
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
@J... have a look at solar thermal, given it is possible in regions with half the solar insolation then it should not be much of a challenge in Texas...
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
2
2
@SolarMike The problem is that solar thermal might do quite well for heating in the winter. But in Texas that system would be useless 3/4 of the time. Solar electric panels would produce power all year long, though obviously more in the summer than in the winter.
– manassehkatz
21 hours ago
@SolarMike The problem is that solar thermal might do quite well for heating in the winter. But in Texas that system would be useless 3/4 of the time. Solar electric panels would produce power all year long, though obviously more in the summer than in the winter.
– manassehkatz
21 hours ago
1
1
@manassehkatz I read a report of a house designed to avoid AC by using basically a double roof - saved the occupants a wedge of money... In Australia iirc
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
@manassehkatz I read a report of a house designed to avoid AC by using basically a double roof - saved the occupants a wedge of money... In Australia iirc
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
1
1
@SolarMike The question is what works in Texas. Dallas hits an average high of 96 F in July and August.
– manassehkatz
21 hours ago
@SolarMike The question is what works in Texas. Dallas hits an average high of 96 F in July and August.
– manassehkatz
21 hours ago
1
1
Consider the "value of money" too - a 20 year payback window on initial costs is terrible. Ideally any sunk cost should be saved/earned back in 1~2 years, otherwise you're better off investing that capital cost and earning interest. But that becomes a financial question.
– Criggie
18 hours ago
Consider the "value of money" too - a 20 year payback window on initial costs is terrible. Ideally any sunk cost should be saved/earned back in 1~2 years, otherwise you're better off investing that capital cost and earning interest. But that becomes a financial question.
– Criggie
18 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
If you design the solar thermal correctly, then given the annual solar insolation ( higher than my location in EU by about a factor of 2) then with good insulation you can avoid heating at all.
But you will need to maximize the passive solar gain - allowing the sun's energy to enter the building in winter for example.
Use underfloor heating driven from the solar thermal collectors and its associated hot water storage tank - this is low temperature compared to "normal" radiators.
3
I'm confused as to how I can avoid heating at all. I know Texas is hot, but in the winter temperatures drop to as low as -3 C
– Phil
yesterday
6
Wow, -3C, here in Switzerland we go down to -10C and I helped build a building which is solar heated all year, with no other form of heating. Just need an architect who knows, along with an energy engineer to make sure the design is optimal. I had already compared your Texas insolation to what we get here...
– Solar Mike
yesterday
2
The average temperature for July appears to be 18 C in Switzerland, as opposed to 30 C in Texas. "Maximizing solar gain" when the average high is 35 C could make for some uncomfortable afternoons. That or spending thousands more on cooling to save hundreds on heating.
– Matthew Gauthier
22 hours ago
2
@MatthewGauthier passive solar gain ... in winter : read it all to understand. Just so you know, summer temperatures can easily get 30+C in Switzerland. Knowing and understanding weather data when wanting to build to these standards is crucial. One that can be useful is "degree-days"...
– Solar Mike
22 hours ago
1
@SolarMike Was this a typical installation with minor changes, or basically a one-off designed for the specific conditions? I've read a couple cool case-studies on net-zero or net-negative energy usage homes, but they were completely designed to be net-zero, and I don't think they were very scalable in production. I'm curious if they are able to standardize a regular home design to account for pure solar heating, or if it requires considerable effort per installation.
– JMac
22 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
If you design the solar thermal correctly, then given the annual solar insolation ( higher than my location in EU by about a factor of 2) then with good insulation you can avoid heating at all.
But you will need to maximize the passive solar gain - allowing the sun's energy to enter the building in winter for example.
Use underfloor heating driven from the solar thermal collectors and its associated hot water storage tank - this is low temperature compared to "normal" radiators.
3
I'm confused as to how I can avoid heating at all. I know Texas is hot, but in the winter temperatures drop to as low as -3 C
– Phil
yesterday
6
Wow, -3C, here in Switzerland we go down to -10C and I helped build a building which is solar heated all year, with no other form of heating. Just need an architect who knows, along with an energy engineer to make sure the design is optimal. I had already compared your Texas insolation to what we get here...
– Solar Mike
yesterday
2
The average temperature for July appears to be 18 C in Switzerland, as opposed to 30 C in Texas. "Maximizing solar gain" when the average high is 35 C could make for some uncomfortable afternoons. That or spending thousands more on cooling to save hundreds on heating.
– Matthew Gauthier
22 hours ago
2
@MatthewGauthier passive solar gain ... in winter : read it all to understand. Just so you know, summer temperatures can easily get 30+C in Switzerland. Knowing and understanding weather data when wanting to build to these standards is crucial. One that can be useful is "degree-days"...
– Solar Mike
22 hours ago
1
@SolarMike Was this a typical installation with minor changes, or basically a one-off designed for the specific conditions? I've read a couple cool case-studies on net-zero or net-negative energy usage homes, but they were completely designed to be net-zero, and I don't think they were very scalable in production. I'm curious if they are able to standardize a regular home design to account for pure solar heating, or if it requires considerable effort per installation.
– JMac
22 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
If you design the solar thermal correctly, then given the annual solar insolation ( higher than my location in EU by about a factor of 2) then with good insulation you can avoid heating at all.
But you will need to maximize the passive solar gain - allowing the sun's energy to enter the building in winter for example.
Use underfloor heating driven from the solar thermal collectors and its associated hot water storage tank - this is low temperature compared to "normal" radiators.
If you design the solar thermal correctly, then given the annual solar insolation ( higher than my location in EU by about a factor of 2) then with good insulation you can avoid heating at all.
But you will need to maximize the passive solar gain - allowing the sun's energy to enter the building in winter for example.
Use underfloor heating driven from the solar thermal collectors and its associated hot water storage tank - this is low temperature compared to "normal" radiators.
edited 21 hours ago
answered yesterday
Solar MikeSolar Mike
1,603210
1,603210
3
I'm confused as to how I can avoid heating at all. I know Texas is hot, but in the winter temperatures drop to as low as -3 C
– Phil
yesterday
6
Wow, -3C, here in Switzerland we go down to -10C and I helped build a building which is solar heated all year, with no other form of heating. Just need an architect who knows, along with an energy engineer to make sure the design is optimal. I had already compared your Texas insolation to what we get here...
– Solar Mike
yesterday
2
The average temperature for July appears to be 18 C in Switzerland, as opposed to 30 C in Texas. "Maximizing solar gain" when the average high is 35 C could make for some uncomfortable afternoons. That or spending thousands more on cooling to save hundreds on heating.
– Matthew Gauthier
22 hours ago
2
@MatthewGauthier passive solar gain ... in winter : read it all to understand. Just so you know, summer temperatures can easily get 30+C in Switzerland. Knowing and understanding weather data when wanting to build to these standards is crucial. One that can be useful is "degree-days"...
– Solar Mike
22 hours ago
1
@SolarMike Was this a typical installation with minor changes, or basically a one-off designed for the specific conditions? I've read a couple cool case-studies on net-zero or net-negative energy usage homes, but they were completely designed to be net-zero, and I don't think they were very scalable in production. I'm curious if they are able to standardize a regular home design to account for pure solar heating, or if it requires considerable effort per installation.
– JMac
22 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
3
I'm confused as to how I can avoid heating at all. I know Texas is hot, but in the winter temperatures drop to as low as -3 C
– Phil
yesterday
6
Wow, -3C, here in Switzerland we go down to -10C and I helped build a building which is solar heated all year, with no other form of heating. Just need an architect who knows, along with an energy engineer to make sure the design is optimal. I had already compared your Texas insolation to what we get here...
– Solar Mike
yesterday
2
The average temperature for July appears to be 18 C in Switzerland, as opposed to 30 C in Texas. "Maximizing solar gain" when the average high is 35 C could make for some uncomfortable afternoons. That or spending thousands more on cooling to save hundreds on heating.
– Matthew Gauthier
22 hours ago
2
@MatthewGauthier passive solar gain ... in winter : read it all to understand. Just so you know, summer temperatures can easily get 30+C in Switzerland. Knowing and understanding weather data when wanting to build to these standards is crucial. One that can be useful is "degree-days"...
– Solar Mike
22 hours ago
1
@SolarMike Was this a typical installation with minor changes, or basically a one-off designed for the specific conditions? I've read a couple cool case-studies on net-zero or net-negative energy usage homes, but they were completely designed to be net-zero, and I don't think they were very scalable in production. I'm curious if they are able to standardize a regular home design to account for pure solar heating, or if it requires considerable effort per installation.
– JMac
22 hours ago
3
3
I'm confused as to how I can avoid heating at all. I know Texas is hot, but in the winter temperatures drop to as low as -3 C
– Phil
yesterday
I'm confused as to how I can avoid heating at all. I know Texas is hot, but in the winter temperatures drop to as low as -3 C
– Phil
yesterday
6
6
Wow, -3C, here in Switzerland we go down to -10C and I helped build a building which is solar heated all year, with no other form of heating. Just need an architect who knows, along with an energy engineer to make sure the design is optimal. I had already compared your Texas insolation to what we get here...
– Solar Mike
yesterday
Wow, -3C, here in Switzerland we go down to -10C and I helped build a building which is solar heated all year, with no other form of heating. Just need an architect who knows, along with an energy engineer to make sure the design is optimal. I had already compared your Texas insolation to what we get here...
– Solar Mike
yesterday
2
2
The average temperature for July appears to be 18 C in Switzerland, as opposed to 30 C in Texas. "Maximizing solar gain" when the average high is 35 C could make for some uncomfortable afternoons. That or spending thousands more on cooling to save hundreds on heating.
– Matthew Gauthier
22 hours ago
The average temperature for July appears to be 18 C in Switzerland, as opposed to 30 C in Texas. "Maximizing solar gain" when the average high is 35 C could make for some uncomfortable afternoons. That or spending thousands more on cooling to save hundreds on heating.
– Matthew Gauthier
22 hours ago
2
2
@MatthewGauthier passive solar gain ... in winter : read it all to understand. Just so you know, summer temperatures can easily get 30+C in Switzerland. Knowing and understanding weather data when wanting to build to these standards is crucial. One that can be useful is "degree-days"...
– Solar Mike
22 hours ago
@MatthewGauthier passive solar gain ... in winter : read it all to understand. Just so you know, summer temperatures can easily get 30+C in Switzerland. Knowing and understanding weather data when wanting to build to these standards is crucial. One that can be useful is "degree-days"...
– Solar Mike
22 hours ago
1
1
@SolarMike Was this a typical installation with minor changes, or basically a one-off designed for the specific conditions? I've read a couple cool case-studies on net-zero or net-negative energy usage homes, but they were completely designed to be net-zero, and I don't think they were very scalable in production. I'm curious if they are able to standardize a regular home design to account for pure solar heating, or if it requires considerable effort per installation.
– JMac
22 hours ago
@SolarMike Was this a typical installation with minor changes, or basically a one-off designed for the specific conditions? I've read a couple cool case-studies on net-zero or net-negative energy usage homes, but they were completely designed to be net-zero, and I don't think they were very scalable in production. I'm curious if they are able to standardize a regular home design to account for pure solar heating, or if it requires considerable effort per installation.
– JMac
22 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
Start with efficiency
Harper's overall point about starting with an efficient envelope is dead-on; managing solar gains is going to be a huge part of it down in Texas, and you'll also need to be careful with insulation and air barriers to avoid trapping water vapor or moisture in wall or roof assemblies.
Vented attics and ducts do not mix!
One classical mistake in Southern homebuilding is the use of a vented attic to house HVAC equipment and ductwork. This not only shortens the life of the equipment due to the high ambient temperatures, but wastes valuable power and capacity on overcoming heat gain through the ducts during cooling seasons, often to the tune of 10-25%.
As a result, if you are using a ducted system, you are far better off putting the ducts inside the building envelope fully, one way or another. "Hot roof" configurations work well in Texas due to the lack of an ice dam concern, but basically require a roofing system that can withstand high heat, which limits you to standing-seam, slate, or tile as a practical matter. There are also configurations that form a mechanical cockloft space between the finish ceiling and the ceiling envelope plane, if you do not mind the extra structural complexity that entails.
Beware the Ductopus, Strangler of Air Conditioners!
Atop this, Southern residential construction compounds the error of putting ducts in the attic with the aid of a few bags of flex and a harried installer or three, resulting in the organic, many-tentacled monstrosity known as a "ductopus" spawning in one's attic. The unstretched flex duct creates excess friction losses, which increase static pressure and reduce the efficiency of the blower at delivering conditioned air to indoor spaces, thus forcing further upsizing of the system to overcome this condition.
The antidote to this is proper duct design -- applying ACCA Manual D rigorously and avoiding the indiscriminate use of flex will give you a fighting chance of being able to use Manuals J and S to right-size your HVAC system for your house, instead of taking the "bigger is better" approach to the problem, because bigger is not better when it comes to HVAC, especially if you are building a high-performance home. Of course, you will want to test your ducts when installed to ensure that the static pressure across the blower is acceptably low; this is a good measure of the overall workmanship of the HVAC techs, as well.
Play to your strengths
Texas is a mostly-cooling climate, by and large. As a result, since you will want some sort of air conditioning anyway, the logical choice for turning electricity into heat here is a heat pump. Furthermore, the use of electric resistance heat is a gross waste of power when your electricity is coming from solar panels; as a result, you will want a heat-pump setup that avoids heat-strip "emergency heat".
This leads us squarely to mini-split heat pumps, of both the ducted and ductless varieties. Instead of leaving the blower on full-bore and using resistance heat to both fuel the defrost process and make up the missing heat, mini-splits stop their indoor blower during defrost, thus allowing them to defrost without resistance heat or blowing cold air everywhere.
Mini-splits also have the advantage of being able to use either multiple ductless heads or low-profile, in-ceiling ducted heads that make going without a full-sized attic or basement to house HVAC ductwork an easier design proposition. (There are also full-sized air-handlers available for today's mini-splits if you want to use one to drive a fully ducted system. You do need to be careful with duct design with this approach, though, as their blowers can't provide quite as much static pressure as the ones on more typical split-system air-handlers.)
Why not gas?
The issue with gas in a climate like yours is that for you, gas furnaces come in one size: too big! For a climate with light heating loads like yours, even the smallest gas furnaces are going to be vastly oversized compared to your actual needs, especially in a high-performance building envelope as heating loads fall off faster than cooling loads when you add insulation and remove air leakage paths.
Given the comfort and efficiency drawbacks of an oversized furnace, this makes mini-split heat more attractive, especially with today's mini-splits that can handle just about anything Texas will throw at them for outdoor temperatures. However, I would not completely discount gas heat: modern modulating-condensing gas hydronic boilers are highly efficient, and can also feed an indirect hot water heater to provide domestic hot water as well as feeding an air-handler coil, radiators, or floor heat for space heating.
How can I determine the efficiency of my home?
– Phil
3 hours ago
@Phil basically it's about combining all the forms of heat loss: the two main ones being conductive (through the surfaces of the building envelope) and ventilated. You can determine the former by working out what is in your walls and its thickness. You can work out the latter with an air test. greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/…
– Dan Gravell
1 hour ago
Wait. They intentionally put A/C units in hot places? Talk about Sisyphus pushing his stone!!! (my way, you interchange with ground, so your ultimate heatsink is cooler than you want your house, that way Sisyphus is pushing downhill...)
– Harper
3 mins ago
add a comment |
Start with efficiency
Harper's overall point about starting with an efficient envelope is dead-on; managing solar gains is going to be a huge part of it down in Texas, and you'll also need to be careful with insulation and air barriers to avoid trapping water vapor or moisture in wall or roof assemblies.
Vented attics and ducts do not mix!
One classical mistake in Southern homebuilding is the use of a vented attic to house HVAC equipment and ductwork. This not only shortens the life of the equipment due to the high ambient temperatures, but wastes valuable power and capacity on overcoming heat gain through the ducts during cooling seasons, often to the tune of 10-25%.
As a result, if you are using a ducted system, you are far better off putting the ducts inside the building envelope fully, one way or another. "Hot roof" configurations work well in Texas due to the lack of an ice dam concern, but basically require a roofing system that can withstand high heat, which limits you to standing-seam, slate, or tile as a practical matter. There are also configurations that form a mechanical cockloft space between the finish ceiling and the ceiling envelope plane, if you do not mind the extra structural complexity that entails.
Beware the Ductopus, Strangler of Air Conditioners!
Atop this, Southern residential construction compounds the error of putting ducts in the attic with the aid of a few bags of flex and a harried installer or three, resulting in the organic, many-tentacled monstrosity known as a "ductopus" spawning in one's attic. The unstretched flex duct creates excess friction losses, which increase static pressure and reduce the efficiency of the blower at delivering conditioned air to indoor spaces, thus forcing further upsizing of the system to overcome this condition.
The antidote to this is proper duct design -- applying ACCA Manual D rigorously and avoiding the indiscriminate use of flex will give you a fighting chance of being able to use Manuals J and S to right-size your HVAC system for your house, instead of taking the "bigger is better" approach to the problem, because bigger is not better when it comes to HVAC, especially if you are building a high-performance home. Of course, you will want to test your ducts when installed to ensure that the static pressure across the blower is acceptably low; this is a good measure of the overall workmanship of the HVAC techs, as well.
Play to your strengths
Texas is a mostly-cooling climate, by and large. As a result, since you will want some sort of air conditioning anyway, the logical choice for turning electricity into heat here is a heat pump. Furthermore, the use of electric resistance heat is a gross waste of power when your electricity is coming from solar panels; as a result, you will want a heat-pump setup that avoids heat-strip "emergency heat".
This leads us squarely to mini-split heat pumps, of both the ducted and ductless varieties. Instead of leaving the blower on full-bore and using resistance heat to both fuel the defrost process and make up the missing heat, mini-splits stop their indoor blower during defrost, thus allowing them to defrost without resistance heat or blowing cold air everywhere.
Mini-splits also have the advantage of being able to use either multiple ductless heads or low-profile, in-ceiling ducted heads that make going without a full-sized attic or basement to house HVAC ductwork an easier design proposition. (There are also full-sized air-handlers available for today's mini-splits if you want to use one to drive a fully ducted system. You do need to be careful with duct design with this approach, though, as their blowers can't provide quite as much static pressure as the ones on more typical split-system air-handlers.)
Why not gas?
The issue with gas in a climate like yours is that for you, gas furnaces come in one size: too big! For a climate with light heating loads like yours, even the smallest gas furnaces are going to be vastly oversized compared to your actual needs, especially in a high-performance building envelope as heating loads fall off faster than cooling loads when you add insulation and remove air leakage paths.
Given the comfort and efficiency drawbacks of an oversized furnace, this makes mini-split heat more attractive, especially with today's mini-splits that can handle just about anything Texas will throw at them for outdoor temperatures. However, I would not completely discount gas heat: modern modulating-condensing gas hydronic boilers are highly efficient, and can also feed an indirect hot water heater to provide domestic hot water as well as feeding an air-handler coil, radiators, or floor heat for space heating.
How can I determine the efficiency of my home?
– Phil
3 hours ago
@Phil basically it's about combining all the forms of heat loss: the two main ones being conductive (through the surfaces of the building envelope) and ventilated. You can determine the former by working out what is in your walls and its thickness. You can work out the latter with an air test. greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/…
– Dan Gravell
1 hour ago
Wait. They intentionally put A/C units in hot places? Talk about Sisyphus pushing his stone!!! (my way, you interchange with ground, so your ultimate heatsink is cooler than you want your house, that way Sisyphus is pushing downhill...)
– Harper
3 mins ago
add a comment |
Start with efficiency
Harper's overall point about starting with an efficient envelope is dead-on; managing solar gains is going to be a huge part of it down in Texas, and you'll also need to be careful with insulation and air barriers to avoid trapping water vapor or moisture in wall or roof assemblies.
Vented attics and ducts do not mix!
One classical mistake in Southern homebuilding is the use of a vented attic to house HVAC equipment and ductwork. This not only shortens the life of the equipment due to the high ambient temperatures, but wastes valuable power and capacity on overcoming heat gain through the ducts during cooling seasons, often to the tune of 10-25%.
As a result, if you are using a ducted system, you are far better off putting the ducts inside the building envelope fully, one way or another. "Hot roof" configurations work well in Texas due to the lack of an ice dam concern, but basically require a roofing system that can withstand high heat, which limits you to standing-seam, slate, or tile as a practical matter. There are also configurations that form a mechanical cockloft space between the finish ceiling and the ceiling envelope plane, if you do not mind the extra structural complexity that entails.
Beware the Ductopus, Strangler of Air Conditioners!
Atop this, Southern residential construction compounds the error of putting ducts in the attic with the aid of a few bags of flex and a harried installer or three, resulting in the organic, many-tentacled monstrosity known as a "ductopus" spawning in one's attic. The unstretched flex duct creates excess friction losses, which increase static pressure and reduce the efficiency of the blower at delivering conditioned air to indoor spaces, thus forcing further upsizing of the system to overcome this condition.
The antidote to this is proper duct design -- applying ACCA Manual D rigorously and avoiding the indiscriminate use of flex will give you a fighting chance of being able to use Manuals J and S to right-size your HVAC system for your house, instead of taking the "bigger is better" approach to the problem, because bigger is not better when it comes to HVAC, especially if you are building a high-performance home. Of course, you will want to test your ducts when installed to ensure that the static pressure across the blower is acceptably low; this is a good measure of the overall workmanship of the HVAC techs, as well.
Play to your strengths
Texas is a mostly-cooling climate, by and large. As a result, since you will want some sort of air conditioning anyway, the logical choice for turning electricity into heat here is a heat pump. Furthermore, the use of electric resistance heat is a gross waste of power when your electricity is coming from solar panels; as a result, you will want a heat-pump setup that avoids heat-strip "emergency heat".
This leads us squarely to mini-split heat pumps, of both the ducted and ductless varieties. Instead of leaving the blower on full-bore and using resistance heat to both fuel the defrost process and make up the missing heat, mini-splits stop their indoor blower during defrost, thus allowing them to defrost without resistance heat or blowing cold air everywhere.
Mini-splits also have the advantage of being able to use either multiple ductless heads or low-profile, in-ceiling ducted heads that make going without a full-sized attic or basement to house HVAC ductwork an easier design proposition. (There are also full-sized air-handlers available for today's mini-splits if you want to use one to drive a fully ducted system. You do need to be careful with duct design with this approach, though, as their blowers can't provide quite as much static pressure as the ones on more typical split-system air-handlers.)
Why not gas?
The issue with gas in a climate like yours is that for you, gas furnaces come in one size: too big! For a climate with light heating loads like yours, even the smallest gas furnaces are going to be vastly oversized compared to your actual needs, especially in a high-performance building envelope as heating loads fall off faster than cooling loads when you add insulation and remove air leakage paths.
Given the comfort and efficiency drawbacks of an oversized furnace, this makes mini-split heat more attractive, especially with today's mini-splits that can handle just about anything Texas will throw at them for outdoor temperatures. However, I would not completely discount gas heat: modern modulating-condensing gas hydronic boilers are highly efficient, and can also feed an indirect hot water heater to provide domestic hot water as well as feeding an air-handler coil, radiators, or floor heat for space heating.
Start with efficiency
Harper's overall point about starting with an efficient envelope is dead-on; managing solar gains is going to be a huge part of it down in Texas, and you'll also need to be careful with insulation and air barriers to avoid trapping water vapor or moisture in wall or roof assemblies.
Vented attics and ducts do not mix!
One classical mistake in Southern homebuilding is the use of a vented attic to house HVAC equipment and ductwork. This not only shortens the life of the equipment due to the high ambient temperatures, but wastes valuable power and capacity on overcoming heat gain through the ducts during cooling seasons, often to the tune of 10-25%.
As a result, if you are using a ducted system, you are far better off putting the ducts inside the building envelope fully, one way or another. "Hot roof" configurations work well in Texas due to the lack of an ice dam concern, but basically require a roofing system that can withstand high heat, which limits you to standing-seam, slate, or tile as a practical matter. There are also configurations that form a mechanical cockloft space between the finish ceiling and the ceiling envelope plane, if you do not mind the extra structural complexity that entails.
Beware the Ductopus, Strangler of Air Conditioners!
Atop this, Southern residential construction compounds the error of putting ducts in the attic with the aid of a few bags of flex and a harried installer or three, resulting in the organic, many-tentacled monstrosity known as a "ductopus" spawning in one's attic. The unstretched flex duct creates excess friction losses, which increase static pressure and reduce the efficiency of the blower at delivering conditioned air to indoor spaces, thus forcing further upsizing of the system to overcome this condition.
The antidote to this is proper duct design -- applying ACCA Manual D rigorously and avoiding the indiscriminate use of flex will give you a fighting chance of being able to use Manuals J and S to right-size your HVAC system for your house, instead of taking the "bigger is better" approach to the problem, because bigger is not better when it comes to HVAC, especially if you are building a high-performance home. Of course, you will want to test your ducts when installed to ensure that the static pressure across the blower is acceptably low; this is a good measure of the overall workmanship of the HVAC techs, as well.
Play to your strengths
Texas is a mostly-cooling climate, by and large. As a result, since you will want some sort of air conditioning anyway, the logical choice for turning electricity into heat here is a heat pump. Furthermore, the use of electric resistance heat is a gross waste of power when your electricity is coming from solar panels; as a result, you will want a heat-pump setup that avoids heat-strip "emergency heat".
This leads us squarely to mini-split heat pumps, of both the ducted and ductless varieties. Instead of leaving the blower on full-bore and using resistance heat to both fuel the defrost process and make up the missing heat, mini-splits stop their indoor blower during defrost, thus allowing them to defrost without resistance heat or blowing cold air everywhere.
Mini-splits also have the advantage of being able to use either multiple ductless heads or low-profile, in-ceiling ducted heads that make going without a full-sized attic or basement to house HVAC ductwork an easier design proposition. (There are also full-sized air-handlers available for today's mini-splits if you want to use one to drive a fully ducted system. You do need to be careful with duct design with this approach, though, as their blowers can't provide quite as much static pressure as the ones on more typical split-system air-handlers.)
Why not gas?
The issue with gas in a climate like yours is that for you, gas furnaces come in one size: too big! For a climate with light heating loads like yours, even the smallest gas furnaces are going to be vastly oversized compared to your actual needs, especially in a high-performance building envelope as heating loads fall off faster than cooling loads when you add insulation and remove air leakage paths.
Given the comfort and efficiency drawbacks of an oversized furnace, this makes mini-split heat more attractive, especially with today's mini-splits that can handle just about anything Texas will throw at them for outdoor temperatures. However, I would not completely discount gas heat: modern modulating-condensing gas hydronic boilers are highly efficient, and can also feed an indirect hot water heater to provide domestic hot water as well as feeding an air-handler coil, radiators, or floor heat for space heating.
answered 13 hours ago
ThreePhaseEelThreePhaseEel
33.3k115199
33.3k115199
How can I determine the efficiency of my home?
– Phil
3 hours ago
@Phil basically it's about combining all the forms of heat loss: the two main ones being conductive (through the surfaces of the building envelope) and ventilated. You can determine the former by working out what is in your walls and its thickness. You can work out the latter with an air test. greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/…
– Dan Gravell
1 hour ago
Wait. They intentionally put A/C units in hot places? Talk about Sisyphus pushing his stone!!! (my way, you interchange with ground, so your ultimate heatsink is cooler than you want your house, that way Sisyphus is pushing downhill...)
– Harper
3 mins ago
add a comment |
How can I determine the efficiency of my home?
– Phil
3 hours ago
@Phil basically it's about combining all the forms of heat loss: the two main ones being conductive (through the surfaces of the building envelope) and ventilated. You can determine the former by working out what is in your walls and its thickness. You can work out the latter with an air test. greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/…
– Dan Gravell
1 hour ago
Wait. They intentionally put A/C units in hot places? Talk about Sisyphus pushing his stone!!! (my way, you interchange with ground, so your ultimate heatsink is cooler than you want your house, that way Sisyphus is pushing downhill...)
– Harper
3 mins ago
How can I determine the efficiency of my home?
– Phil
3 hours ago
How can I determine the efficiency of my home?
– Phil
3 hours ago
@Phil basically it's about combining all the forms of heat loss: the two main ones being conductive (through the surfaces of the building envelope) and ventilated. You can determine the former by working out what is in your walls and its thickness. You can work out the latter with an air test. greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/…
– Dan Gravell
1 hour ago
@Phil basically it's about combining all the forms of heat loss: the two main ones being conductive (through the surfaces of the building envelope) and ventilated. You can determine the former by working out what is in your walls and its thickness. You can work out the latter with an air test. greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/…
– Dan Gravell
1 hour ago
Wait. They intentionally put A/C units in hot places? Talk about Sisyphus pushing his stone!!! (my way, you interchange with ground, so your ultimate heatsink is cooler than you want your house, that way Sisyphus is pushing downhill...)
– Harper
3 mins ago
Wait. They intentionally put A/C units in hot places? Talk about Sisyphus pushing his stone!!! (my way, you interchange with ground, so your ultimate heatsink is cooler than you want your house, that way Sisyphus is pushing downhill...)
– Harper
3 mins ago
add a comment |
If you have enough solar in place to manage cooling during the summer, you probably have enough solar to manage heating during the winter. The question is if you can get more money from selling the solar to the grid, and using that money to buy gas for heating. The answer is usually yes, as long as you can sell to the grid at a decent price.
Probably better for the environment, too. Most electricity comes from fossil fuels, and that's less efficient than burning them for heat. By pushing solar to the grid, you can reduce the fossil fuels needed for power.
add a comment |
If you have enough solar in place to manage cooling during the summer, you probably have enough solar to manage heating during the winter. The question is if you can get more money from selling the solar to the grid, and using that money to buy gas for heating. The answer is usually yes, as long as you can sell to the grid at a decent price.
Probably better for the environment, too. Most electricity comes from fossil fuels, and that's less efficient than burning them for heat. By pushing solar to the grid, you can reduce the fossil fuels needed for power.
add a comment |
If you have enough solar in place to manage cooling during the summer, you probably have enough solar to manage heating during the winter. The question is if you can get more money from selling the solar to the grid, and using that money to buy gas for heating. The answer is usually yes, as long as you can sell to the grid at a decent price.
Probably better for the environment, too. Most electricity comes from fossil fuels, and that's less efficient than burning them for heat. By pushing solar to the grid, you can reduce the fossil fuels needed for power.
If you have enough solar in place to manage cooling during the summer, you probably have enough solar to manage heating during the winter. The question is if you can get more money from selling the solar to the grid, and using that money to buy gas for heating. The answer is usually yes, as long as you can sell to the grid at a decent price.
Probably better for the environment, too. Most electricity comes from fossil fuels, and that's less efficient than burning them for heat. By pushing solar to the grid, you can reduce the fossil fuels needed for power.
answered yesterday
user3757614user3757614
23315
23315
add a comment |
add a comment |
My preferred way is small split ac, reversible, COP of 1 to 3. Service can be expensive.
New contributor
COP of less than 3 is low, good stuff with good control should be +4 when designed to match the loads properly...
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
2
@SolarMike COP depends on the outside temperature. You're thinking of COP at standard conditions, which are not applicable to many areas, and lead to incorrect sizing. The most important part of selecting heat pumps is to know the outside temperature where COP hits 1, as well as knowing when resistance heat is necessary.
– user71659
20 hours ago
add a comment |
My preferred way is small split ac, reversible, COP of 1 to 3. Service can be expensive.
New contributor
COP of less than 3 is low, good stuff with good control should be +4 when designed to match the loads properly...
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
2
@SolarMike COP depends on the outside temperature. You're thinking of COP at standard conditions, which are not applicable to many areas, and lead to incorrect sizing. The most important part of selecting heat pumps is to know the outside temperature where COP hits 1, as well as knowing when resistance heat is necessary.
– user71659
20 hours ago
add a comment |
My preferred way is small split ac, reversible, COP of 1 to 3. Service can be expensive.
New contributor
My preferred way is small split ac, reversible, COP of 1 to 3. Service can be expensive.
New contributor
edited 20 hours ago
Machavity
8,66522043
8,66522043
New contributor
answered 22 hours ago
stevesteve
111
111
New contributor
New contributor
COP of less than 3 is low, good stuff with good control should be +4 when designed to match the loads properly...
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
2
@SolarMike COP depends on the outside temperature. You're thinking of COP at standard conditions, which are not applicable to many areas, and lead to incorrect sizing. The most important part of selecting heat pumps is to know the outside temperature where COP hits 1, as well as knowing when resistance heat is necessary.
– user71659
20 hours ago
add a comment |
COP of less than 3 is low, good stuff with good control should be +4 when designed to match the loads properly...
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
2
@SolarMike COP depends on the outside temperature. You're thinking of COP at standard conditions, which are not applicable to many areas, and lead to incorrect sizing. The most important part of selecting heat pumps is to know the outside temperature where COP hits 1, as well as knowing when resistance heat is necessary.
– user71659
20 hours ago
COP of less than 3 is low, good stuff with good control should be +4 when designed to match the loads properly...
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
COP of less than 3 is low, good stuff with good control should be +4 when designed to match the loads properly...
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
2
2
@SolarMike COP depends on the outside temperature. You're thinking of COP at standard conditions, which are not applicable to many areas, and lead to incorrect sizing. The most important part of selecting heat pumps is to know the outside temperature where COP hits 1, as well as knowing when resistance heat is necessary.
– user71659
20 hours ago
@SolarMike COP depends on the outside temperature. You're thinking of COP at standard conditions, which are not applicable to many areas, and lead to incorrect sizing. The most important part of selecting heat pumps is to know the outside temperature where COP hits 1, as well as knowing when resistance heat is necessary.
– user71659
20 hours ago
add a comment |
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Are you grid tied?
– Harper
yesterday
6
If you go this route, consider getting a heat pump. This is basically an whole-house AC that can run in reverse, and is more efficient than resistance heating.
– user3757614
yesterday
1
@JPhi1618 Hmm you need to check out solar thermal - much more effective for heating compared to solar pv...
– Solar Mike
21 hours ago
1
@SolarMike, the problem with solar thermal is that it's hard to store, and you mostly need heating at times when the Sun isn't shining. Solar electric you can store in batteries or "store" on the grid in the form of net metering, while solar thermal needs large chunks of material to store the heat in.
– Mark
20 hours ago
2
Without working the numbers, this will not work out well, simply due to the 1st law of thermodynamics. None of the components on the market have (or reasonably will ever have) high enough efficiency to justify using PV for heating, when black paint is at least 5 times more efficient (not to mention cheaper).
– Aron
19 hours ago