How would this chord from “Rocket Man” be analyzed? Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another...
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How would this chord from “Rocket Man” be analyzed?
Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?
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[Chorus:]
Bb Eb
And I think it's gonna be a long, long time
Bb
'Till touch down brings me roung again to find
Eb
I'm not the man they think I am at home
Bb C
Oh no, no, no, I'm a rocket man
Eb Bb
Rocket man, burning out his fuse up here alone
Simple question here but want to know what the better option would be. In the chorus to Elton John's "Rocket Man" (in B-flat major), there is a C major chord.
Would it be best to analyze the C major chord as V/V, or as a borrowed chord from B-flat lydian, or something else?
I don't know if it is a good option to analyze a chord as a secondary chord unless it resolves to that chord (or as a deceptive resolution, ex. V/V to vi/V).
I'd appreciate any thoughts on this. Thanks.
theory chords chord-theory analysis
add a comment |
[Chorus:]
Bb Eb
And I think it's gonna be a long, long time
Bb
'Till touch down brings me roung again to find
Eb
I'm not the man they think I am at home
Bb C
Oh no, no, no, I'm a rocket man
Eb Bb
Rocket man, burning out his fuse up here alone
Simple question here but want to know what the better option would be. In the chorus to Elton John's "Rocket Man" (in B-flat major), there is a C major chord.
Would it be best to analyze the C major chord as V/V, or as a borrowed chord from B-flat lydian, or something else?
I don't know if it is a good option to analyze a chord as a secondary chord unless it resolves to that chord (or as a deceptive resolution, ex. V/V to vi/V).
I'd appreciate any thoughts on this. Thanks.
theory chords chord-theory analysis
4
Just like the Beatles 'Eight Days a Week' for one.
– Tim
yesterday
I know the chromatic line based on the chords helps the chords flow more smoothly (starting with the Bb chord, F-E-Eb-D). As you said, this chord progression occurs in that song too.
– Lennon_Ashton
yesterday
2
I’m not an expert but if a chord is not followed by a chord that has a root a fifth lower, then it seems to make less sense to me to view it as a “V/“ anything. In other words, I wouldn’t normally view it as “V/V” if it’s not followed by the V chord.
– Todd Wilcox
yesterday
Right, exactly. That is what I was thinking and why I'm wondering what a better analysis would be.
– Lennon_Ashton
yesterday
1
Another option to consider for analysing this chord besides V/V or a lydian motif might simply be as the II chord.
– user45266
yesterday
add a comment |
[Chorus:]
Bb Eb
And I think it's gonna be a long, long time
Bb
'Till touch down brings me roung again to find
Eb
I'm not the man they think I am at home
Bb C
Oh no, no, no, I'm a rocket man
Eb Bb
Rocket man, burning out his fuse up here alone
Simple question here but want to know what the better option would be. In the chorus to Elton John's "Rocket Man" (in B-flat major), there is a C major chord.
Would it be best to analyze the C major chord as V/V, or as a borrowed chord from B-flat lydian, or something else?
I don't know if it is a good option to analyze a chord as a secondary chord unless it resolves to that chord (or as a deceptive resolution, ex. V/V to vi/V).
I'd appreciate any thoughts on this. Thanks.
theory chords chord-theory analysis
[Chorus:]
Bb Eb
And I think it's gonna be a long, long time
Bb
'Till touch down brings me roung again to find
Eb
I'm not the man they think I am at home
Bb C
Oh no, no, no, I'm a rocket man
Eb Bb
Rocket man, burning out his fuse up here alone
Simple question here but want to know what the better option would be. In the chorus to Elton John's "Rocket Man" (in B-flat major), there is a C major chord.
Would it be best to analyze the C major chord as V/V, or as a borrowed chord from B-flat lydian, or something else?
I don't know if it is a good option to analyze a chord as a secondary chord unless it resolves to that chord (or as a deceptive resolution, ex. V/V to vi/V).
I'd appreciate any thoughts on this. Thanks.
theory chords chord-theory analysis
theory chords chord-theory analysis
edited 1 hour ago
Tobia Tesan
26518
26518
asked yesterday
Lennon_AshtonLennon_Ashton
20512
20512
4
Just like the Beatles 'Eight Days a Week' for one.
– Tim
yesterday
I know the chromatic line based on the chords helps the chords flow more smoothly (starting with the Bb chord, F-E-Eb-D). As you said, this chord progression occurs in that song too.
– Lennon_Ashton
yesterday
2
I’m not an expert but if a chord is not followed by a chord that has a root a fifth lower, then it seems to make less sense to me to view it as a “V/“ anything. In other words, I wouldn’t normally view it as “V/V” if it’s not followed by the V chord.
– Todd Wilcox
yesterday
Right, exactly. That is what I was thinking and why I'm wondering what a better analysis would be.
– Lennon_Ashton
yesterday
1
Another option to consider for analysing this chord besides V/V or a lydian motif might simply be as the II chord.
– user45266
yesterday
add a comment |
4
Just like the Beatles 'Eight Days a Week' for one.
– Tim
yesterday
I know the chromatic line based on the chords helps the chords flow more smoothly (starting with the Bb chord, F-E-Eb-D). As you said, this chord progression occurs in that song too.
– Lennon_Ashton
yesterday
2
I’m not an expert but if a chord is not followed by a chord that has a root a fifth lower, then it seems to make less sense to me to view it as a “V/“ anything. In other words, I wouldn’t normally view it as “V/V” if it’s not followed by the V chord.
– Todd Wilcox
yesterday
Right, exactly. That is what I was thinking and why I'm wondering what a better analysis would be.
– Lennon_Ashton
yesterday
1
Another option to consider for analysing this chord besides V/V or a lydian motif might simply be as the II chord.
– user45266
yesterday
4
4
Just like the Beatles 'Eight Days a Week' for one.
– Tim
yesterday
Just like the Beatles 'Eight Days a Week' for one.
– Tim
yesterday
I know the chromatic line based on the chords helps the chords flow more smoothly (starting with the Bb chord, F-E-Eb-D). As you said, this chord progression occurs in that song too.
– Lennon_Ashton
yesterday
I know the chromatic line based on the chords helps the chords flow more smoothly (starting with the Bb chord, F-E-Eb-D). As you said, this chord progression occurs in that song too.
– Lennon_Ashton
yesterday
2
2
I’m not an expert but if a chord is not followed by a chord that has a root a fifth lower, then it seems to make less sense to me to view it as a “V/“ anything. In other words, I wouldn’t normally view it as “V/V” if it’s not followed by the V chord.
– Todd Wilcox
yesterday
I’m not an expert but if a chord is not followed by a chord that has a root a fifth lower, then it seems to make less sense to me to view it as a “V/“ anything. In other words, I wouldn’t normally view it as “V/V” if it’s not followed by the V chord.
– Todd Wilcox
yesterday
Right, exactly. That is what I was thinking and why I'm wondering what a better analysis would be.
– Lennon_Ashton
yesterday
Right, exactly. That is what I was thinking and why I'm wondering what a better analysis would be.
– Lennon_Ashton
yesterday
1
1
Another option to consider for analysing this chord besides V/V or a lydian motif might simply be as the II chord.
– user45266
yesterday
Another option to consider for analysing this chord besides V/V or a lydian motif might simply be as the II chord.
– user45266
yesterday
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
To answer the question of whether the C chord is "really" V of V, you need to remember one simple fact about music.
When you listen to music, you hear it progressing in time.
Therefore, analysing any chord in terms of "what comes after it" by looking at the score is just an intellectual exercise, if it has no relationship to what the music actually sounds like. A description like "V of V" only makes sense if the listener expects to be hearing common practice functional harmony, but that's not what the song is about.
The chorus starts with a Bb chord, followed by an Eb chord over the same Bb bass note. The cumulative effect of the Bb and Eb/Bb chords in fact destablilizes Bb as the "tonic" - we are used to hearing harmonic progressions that progress somewhere!
So when the C chord arrives, at last we have a progression! We don't know where we are progressing to yet, because we haven't heard what comes next, but at least we are going somewhere.
… except that actually we don't go anywhere, because the next chord is right back to Eb and then Bb again. But hey, that C was a nice surprise while it lasted.
You can replace the C with virtually any major chord get a similar effect. Try Db major, D major, Gb major, or G major, for example.
Bottom line: this isn't functional, common-practice harmony. Good luck trying to invent a functional-harmony name for a Db or Gb chord here, but they work as music. Elton John just happened to pick C instead. Maybe his backing band haven't learned Db or Gb chords yet … (just joking, of course).
New contributor
I can't agree. This sounds entirely functional. It is just a bit of mode mixture, using the common Lydian chord progression of II-IV-I. It's perfectly common in rock music to have sections in Lydian or Mixolydian. Replacing the C with other chords does not have the same effect of being both surprising yet still entirely smooth and natural sounding.
– trlkly
10 hours ago
I am downvoting this answer because I disagree with some points. You say that the C is not part of an harmonic progression, and then somehow it isn't funcional harmony anymore? There is literally just one note off the scale and that makes it not functional harmony? This song is not atonal, nor modal, nor anything, it's 100% functional harmony.
– coconochao
1 hour ago
add a comment |
The other answers make the important points about analysis.
Not a secondary dominant V/V
, because it isn't functioning as a dominant. The upper case II
will provide a Roman numeral analysis symbol to show it is a major triad.
Some people call I II IV I
a Lydian II progression and it's fairly common in pop/rock.
But, I want add one other point: notice the symbolism of that chord in relation to the lyrics. We have a root progression up by step from Bb
to C
and the normally minor ii
has the third raised to make a major triad II
. The C
chord doesn't resolve in a typical functional way. You could say the chord goes up but doesn't come back down! That musical symbolism at the moment the lyrics say "...rocket man!" explains a lot about the emotional meaning of the chord when they don't fulfill the standard harmonic expectations.
3
Another point about the musical context is that in the arrangement I've heard, there is a synthesizer pitch slide from (I think) F up to C, which coincides with the arrival of the C chord. The slide is a very literal depiction of a rocket rising off the launch pad. The fact that it's a slide kind of blurs the focus on any specific triad or harmonic function.
– Ben Crowell
22 hours ago
1
I've always wondered about that slide sound, if there is slide guitar in it?
– Michael Curtis
22 hours ago
add a comment |
Somedays ago I've read somewhere that the Beatles had written many songs in modal harmony and not in major/minor. Looking at the chord progression my first association here has also been: Beatles. Yes, like others saying: Eight days a week!
So as there are certainly modal elements here ... it doesn't make sense to analyse it in RNA.
Except you could understand this solution: I-II-IV-I
my argumentation:
When I studied at Swiss Jazz School in the late sixties they didn't use the signs ii,iii, iv for minor chords. The notation was IIm, VIm etc. And the secondary dominant progression C-A7-D7-G7 was written as I-VI-II-V as a variant of I-VIm-IIm-V7 (I-vi-ii-V7). I know there are still different systems of writing chord progressions in Jazz.
1
I first read about "Lydian II" here angelfire.com/fl4/moneychords/lydianprogression.html
– Michael Curtis
23 hours ago
1
That‘s it! I was also thinking of Lydian. For this I‘d call it the Beatles progression :)
– Albrecht Hügli
23 hours ago
add a comment |
I'm going to go against the grain with other answers here and say that the C
is in fact a V/V
since it does in fact resolve to a V
, albeit momentarily. Listening to the recording, there's a momentary F
in the piano before resolving to Bb
which serves as the V/V-V-I
resolution we're expecting. It also make sense to play it this way as the voice leading is no longer parallel.
This is also more pleasant to the ear than an unresolved C
in the middle of an (admittedly key vague) piece. You'll find that if you play the chords without putting some leading tones in between C
and the next chord (Bb
again) it sounds quite odd. It's certainly odd to hang out on the V/V
, and this provides a certain tension, but I think it's quite functional in terms of the harmony.
I should also point out that this answer doesn't invalidate other answers, and it's entirely subjective really - all music is. However, I hear the V
fairly well despite the fact that it's buried in the mix, and I want to say that it makes just as much sense to my ears.
New contributor
Where does the Eb chord fit into what you hear? Do you mean you hear V/V-V-IV-I (C - F - Eb - Bb)?
– trlkly
10 hours ago
add a comment |
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
To answer the question of whether the C chord is "really" V of V, you need to remember one simple fact about music.
When you listen to music, you hear it progressing in time.
Therefore, analysing any chord in terms of "what comes after it" by looking at the score is just an intellectual exercise, if it has no relationship to what the music actually sounds like. A description like "V of V" only makes sense if the listener expects to be hearing common practice functional harmony, but that's not what the song is about.
The chorus starts with a Bb chord, followed by an Eb chord over the same Bb bass note. The cumulative effect of the Bb and Eb/Bb chords in fact destablilizes Bb as the "tonic" - we are used to hearing harmonic progressions that progress somewhere!
So when the C chord arrives, at last we have a progression! We don't know where we are progressing to yet, because we haven't heard what comes next, but at least we are going somewhere.
… except that actually we don't go anywhere, because the next chord is right back to Eb and then Bb again. But hey, that C was a nice surprise while it lasted.
You can replace the C with virtually any major chord get a similar effect. Try Db major, D major, Gb major, or G major, for example.
Bottom line: this isn't functional, common-practice harmony. Good luck trying to invent a functional-harmony name for a Db or Gb chord here, but they work as music. Elton John just happened to pick C instead. Maybe his backing band haven't learned Db or Gb chords yet … (just joking, of course).
New contributor
I can't agree. This sounds entirely functional. It is just a bit of mode mixture, using the common Lydian chord progression of II-IV-I. It's perfectly common in rock music to have sections in Lydian or Mixolydian. Replacing the C with other chords does not have the same effect of being both surprising yet still entirely smooth and natural sounding.
– trlkly
10 hours ago
I am downvoting this answer because I disagree with some points. You say that the C is not part of an harmonic progression, and then somehow it isn't funcional harmony anymore? There is literally just one note off the scale and that makes it not functional harmony? This song is not atonal, nor modal, nor anything, it's 100% functional harmony.
– coconochao
1 hour ago
add a comment |
To answer the question of whether the C chord is "really" V of V, you need to remember one simple fact about music.
When you listen to music, you hear it progressing in time.
Therefore, analysing any chord in terms of "what comes after it" by looking at the score is just an intellectual exercise, if it has no relationship to what the music actually sounds like. A description like "V of V" only makes sense if the listener expects to be hearing common practice functional harmony, but that's not what the song is about.
The chorus starts with a Bb chord, followed by an Eb chord over the same Bb bass note. The cumulative effect of the Bb and Eb/Bb chords in fact destablilizes Bb as the "tonic" - we are used to hearing harmonic progressions that progress somewhere!
So when the C chord arrives, at last we have a progression! We don't know where we are progressing to yet, because we haven't heard what comes next, but at least we are going somewhere.
… except that actually we don't go anywhere, because the next chord is right back to Eb and then Bb again. But hey, that C was a nice surprise while it lasted.
You can replace the C with virtually any major chord get a similar effect. Try Db major, D major, Gb major, or G major, for example.
Bottom line: this isn't functional, common-practice harmony. Good luck trying to invent a functional-harmony name for a Db or Gb chord here, but they work as music. Elton John just happened to pick C instead. Maybe his backing band haven't learned Db or Gb chords yet … (just joking, of course).
New contributor
I can't agree. This sounds entirely functional. It is just a bit of mode mixture, using the common Lydian chord progression of II-IV-I. It's perfectly common in rock music to have sections in Lydian or Mixolydian. Replacing the C with other chords does not have the same effect of being both surprising yet still entirely smooth and natural sounding.
– trlkly
10 hours ago
I am downvoting this answer because I disagree with some points. You say that the C is not part of an harmonic progression, and then somehow it isn't funcional harmony anymore? There is literally just one note off the scale and that makes it not functional harmony? This song is not atonal, nor modal, nor anything, it's 100% functional harmony.
– coconochao
1 hour ago
add a comment |
To answer the question of whether the C chord is "really" V of V, you need to remember one simple fact about music.
When you listen to music, you hear it progressing in time.
Therefore, analysing any chord in terms of "what comes after it" by looking at the score is just an intellectual exercise, if it has no relationship to what the music actually sounds like. A description like "V of V" only makes sense if the listener expects to be hearing common practice functional harmony, but that's not what the song is about.
The chorus starts with a Bb chord, followed by an Eb chord over the same Bb bass note. The cumulative effect of the Bb and Eb/Bb chords in fact destablilizes Bb as the "tonic" - we are used to hearing harmonic progressions that progress somewhere!
So when the C chord arrives, at last we have a progression! We don't know where we are progressing to yet, because we haven't heard what comes next, but at least we are going somewhere.
… except that actually we don't go anywhere, because the next chord is right back to Eb and then Bb again. But hey, that C was a nice surprise while it lasted.
You can replace the C with virtually any major chord get a similar effect. Try Db major, D major, Gb major, or G major, for example.
Bottom line: this isn't functional, common-practice harmony. Good luck trying to invent a functional-harmony name for a Db or Gb chord here, but they work as music. Elton John just happened to pick C instead. Maybe his backing band haven't learned Db or Gb chords yet … (just joking, of course).
New contributor
To answer the question of whether the C chord is "really" V of V, you need to remember one simple fact about music.
When you listen to music, you hear it progressing in time.
Therefore, analysing any chord in terms of "what comes after it" by looking at the score is just an intellectual exercise, if it has no relationship to what the music actually sounds like. A description like "V of V" only makes sense if the listener expects to be hearing common practice functional harmony, but that's not what the song is about.
The chorus starts with a Bb chord, followed by an Eb chord over the same Bb bass note. The cumulative effect of the Bb and Eb/Bb chords in fact destablilizes Bb as the "tonic" - we are used to hearing harmonic progressions that progress somewhere!
So when the C chord arrives, at last we have a progression! We don't know where we are progressing to yet, because we haven't heard what comes next, but at least we are going somewhere.
… except that actually we don't go anywhere, because the next chord is right back to Eb and then Bb again. But hey, that C was a nice surprise while it lasted.
You can replace the C with virtually any major chord get a similar effect. Try Db major, D major, Gb major, or G major, for example.
Bottom line: this isn't functional, common-practice harmony. Good luck trying to invent a functional-harmony name for a Db or Gb chord here, but they work as music. Elton John just happened to pick C instead. Maybe his backing band haven't learned Db or Gb chords yet … (just joking, of course).
New contributor
New contributor
answered yesterday
guestguest
1972
1972
New contributor
New contributor
I can't agree. This sounds entirely functional. It is just a bit of mode mixture, using the common Lydian chord progression of II-IV-I. It's perfectly common in rock music to have sections in Lydian or Mixolydian. Replacing the C with other chords does not have the same effect of being both surprising yet still entirely smooth and natural sounding.
– trlkly
10 hours ago
I am downvoting this answer because I disagree with some points. You say that the C is not part of an harmonic progression, and then somehow it isn't funcional harmony anymore? There is literally just one note off the scale and that makes it not functional harmony? This song is not atonal, nor modal, nor anything, it's 100% functional harmony.
– coconochao
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I can't agree. This sounds entirely functional. It is just a bit of mode mixture, using the common Lydian chord progression of II-IV-I. It's perfectly common in rock music to have sections in Lydian or Mixolydian. Replacing the C with other chords does not have the same effect of being both surprising yet still entirely smooth and natural sounding.
– trlkly
10 hours ago
I am downvoting this answer because I disagree with some points. You say that the C is not part of an harmonic progression, and then somehow it isn't funcional harmony anymore? There is literally just one note off the scale and that makes it not functional harmony? This song is not atonal, nor modal, nor anything, it's 100% functional harmony.
– coconochao
1 hour ago
I can't agree. This sounds entirely functional. It is just a bit of mode mixture, using the common Lydian chord progression of II-IV-I. It's perfectly common in rock music to have sections in Lydian or Mixolydian. Replacing the C with other chords does not have the same effect of being both surprising yet still entirely smooth and natural sounding.
– trlkly
10 hours ago
I can't agree. This sounds entirely functional. It is just a bit of mode mixture, using the common Lydian chord progression of II-IV-I. It's perfectly common in rock music to have sections in Lydian or Mixolydian. Replacing the C with other chords does not have the same effect of being both surprising yet still entirely smooth and natural sounding.
– trlkly
10 hours ago
I am downvoting this answer because I disagree with some points. You say that the C is not part of an harmonic progression, and then somehow it isn't funcional harmony anymore? There is literally just one note off the scale and that makes it not functional harmony? This song is not atonal, nor modal, nor anything, it's 100% functional harmony.
– coconochao
1 hour ago
I am downvoting this answer because I disagree with some points. You say that the C is not part of an harmonic progression, and then somehow it isn't funcional harmony anymore? There is literally just one note off the scale and that makes it not functional harmony? This song is not atonal, nor modal, nor anything, it's 100% functional harmony.
– coconochao
1 hour ago
add a comment |
The other answers make the important points about analysis.
Not a secondary dominant V/V
, because it isn't functioning as a dominant. The upper case II
will provide a Roman numeral analysis symbol to show it is a major triad.
Some people call I II IV I
a Lydian II progression and it's fairly common in pop/rock.
But, I want add one other point: notice the symbolism of that chord in relation to the lyrics. We have a root progression up by step from Bb
to C
and the normally minor ii
has the third raised to make a major triad II
. The C
chord doesn't resolve in a typical functional way. You could say the chord goes up but doesn't come back down! That musical symbolism at the moment the lyrics say "...rocket man!" explains a lot about the emotional meaning of the chord when they don't fulfill the standard harmonic expectations.
3
Another point about the musical context is that in the arrangement I've heard, there is a synthesizer pitch slide from (I think) F up to C, which coincides with the arrival of the C chord. The slide is a very literal depiction of a rocket rising off the launch pad. The fact that it's a slide kind of blurs the focus on any specific triad or harmonic function.
– Ben Crowell
22 hours ago
1
I've always wondered about that slide sound, if there is slide guitar in it?
– Michael Curtis
22 hours ago
add a comment |
The other answers make the important points about analysis.
Not a secondary dominant V/V
, because it isn't functioning as a dominant. The upper case II
will provide a Roman numeral analysis symbol to show it is a major triad.
Some people call I II IV I
a Lydian II progression and it's fairly common in pop/rock.
But, I want add one other point: notice the symbolism of that chord in relation to the lyrics. We have a root progression up by step from Bb
to C
and the normally minor ii
has the third raised to make a major triad II
. The C
chord doesn't resolve in a typical functional way. You could say the chord goes up but doesn't come back down! That musical symbolism at the moment the lyrics say "...rocket man!" explains a lot about the emotional meaning of the chord when they don't fulfill the standard harmonic expectations.
3
Another point about the musical context is that in the arrangement I've heard, there is a synthesizer pitch slide from (I think) F up to C, which coincides with the arrival of the C chord. The slide is a very literal depiction of a rocket rising off the launch pad. The fact that it's a slide kind of blurs the focus on any specific triad or harmonic function.
– Ben Crowell
22 hours ago
1
I've always wondered about that slide sound, if there is slide guitar in it?
– Michael Curtis
22 hours ago
add a comment |
The other answers make the important points about analysis.
Not a secondary dominant V/V
, because it isn't functioning as a dominant. The upper case II
will provide a Roman numeral analysis symbol to show it is a major triad.
Some people call I II IV I
a Lydian II progression and it's fairly common in pop/rock.
But, I want add one other point: notice the symbolism of that chord in relation to the lyrics. We have a root progression up by step from Bb
to C
and the normally minor ii
has the third raised to make a major triad II
. The C
chord doesn't resolve in a typical functional way. You could say the chord goes up but doesn't come back down! That musical symbolism at the moment the lyrics say "...rocket man!" explains a lot about the emotional meaning of the chord when they don't fulfill the standard harmonic expectations.
The other answers make the important points about analysis.
Not a secondary dominant V/V
, because it isn't functioning as a dominant. The upper case II
will provide a Roman numeral analysis symbol to show it is a major triad.
Some people call I II IV I
a Lydian II progression and it's fairly common in pop/rock.
But, I want add one other point: notice the symbolism of that chord in relation to the lyrics. We have a root progression up by step from Bb
to C
and the normally minor ii
has the third raised to make a major triad II
. The C
chord doesn't resolve in a typical functional way. You could say the chord goes up but doesn't come back down! That musical symbolism at the moment the lyrics say "...rocket man!" explains a lot about the emotional meaning of the chord when they don't fulfill the standard harmonic expectations.
edited 23 hours ago
answered 23 hours ago
Michael CurtisMichael Curtis
12.8k946
12.8k946
3
Another point about the musical context is that in the arrangement I've heard, there is a synthesizer pitch slide from (I think) F up to C, which coincides with the arrival of the C chord. The slide is a very literal depiction of a rocket rising off the launch pad. The fact that it's a slide kind of blurs the focus on any specific triad or harmonic function.
– Ben Crowell
22 hours ago
1
I've always wondered about that slide sound, if there is slide guitar in it?
– Michael Curtis
22 hours ago
add a comment |
3
Another point about the musical context is that in the arrangement I've heard, there is a synthesizer pitch slide from (I think) F up to C, which coincides with the arrival of the C chord. The slide is a very literal depiction of a rocket rising off the launch pad. The fact that it's a slide kind of blurs the focus on any specific triad or harmonic function.
– Ben Crowell
22 hours ago
1
I've always wondered about that slide sound, if there is slide guitar in it?
– Michael Curtis
22 hours ago
3
3
Another point about the musical context is that in the arrangement I've heard, there is a synthesizer pitch slide from (I think) F up to C, which coincides with the arrival of the C chord. The slide is a very literal depiction of a rocket rising off the launch pad. The fact that it's a slide kind of blurs the focus on any specific triad or harmonic function.
– Ben Crowell
22 hours ago
Another point about the musical context is that in the arrangement I've heard, there is a synthesizer pitch slide from (I think) F up to C, which coincides with the arrival of the C chord. The slide is a very literal depiction of a rocket rising off the launch pad. The fact that it's a slide kind of blurs the focus on any specific triad or harmonic function.
– Ben Crowell
22 hours ago
1
1
I've always wondered about that slide sound, if there is slide guitar in it?
– Michael Curtis
22 hours ago
I've always wondered about that slide sound, if there is slide guitar in it?
– Michael Curtis
22 hours ago
add a comment |
Somedays ago I've read somewhere that the Beatles had written many songs in modal harmony and not in major/minor. Looking at the chord progression my first association here has also been: Beatles. Yes, like others saying: Eight days a week!
So as there are certainly modal elements here ... it doesn't make sense to analyse it in RNA.
Except you could understand this solution: I-II-IV-I
my argumentation:
When I studied at Swiss Jazz School in the late sixties they didn't use the signs ii,iii, iv for minor chords. The notation was IIm, VIm etc. And the secondary dominant progression C-A7-D7-G7 was written as I-VI-II-V as a variant of I-VIm-IIm-V7 (I-vi-ii-V7). I know there are still different systems of writing chord progressions in Jazz.
1
I first read about "Lydian II" here angelfire.com/fl4/moneychords/lydianprogression.html
– Michael Curtis
23 hours ago
1
That‘s it! I was also thinking of Lydian. For this I‘d call it the Beatles progression :)
– Albrecht Hügli
23 hours ago
add a comment |
Somedays ago I've read somewhere that the Beatles had written many songs in modal harmony and not in major/minor. Looking at the chord progression my first association here has also been: Beatles. Yes, like others saying: Eight days a week!
So as there are certainly modal elements here ... it doesn't make sense to analyse it in RNA.
Except you could understand this solution: I-II-IV-I
my argumentation:
When I studied at Swiss Jazz School in the late sixties they didn't use the signs ii,iii, iv for minor chords. The notation was IIm, VIm etc. And the secondary dominant progression C-A7-D7-G7 was written as I-VI-II-V as a variant of I-VIm-IIm-V7 (I-vi-ii-V7). I know there are still different systems of writing chord progressions in Jazz.
1
I first read about "Lydian II" here angelfire.com/fl4/moneychords/lydianprogression.html
– Michael Curtis
23 hours ago
1
That‘s it! I was also thinking of Lydian. For this I‘d call it the Beatles progression :)
– Albrecht Hügli
23 hours ago
add a comment |
Somedays ago I've read somewhere that the Beatles had written many songs in modal harmony and not in major/minor. Looking at the chord progression my first association here has also been: Beatles. Yes, like others saying: Eight days a week!
So as there are certainly modal elements here ... it doesn't make sense to analyse it in RNA.
Except you could understand this solution: I-II-IV-I
my argumentation:
When I studied at Swiss Jazz School in the late sixties they didn't use the signs ii,iii, iv for minor chords. The notation was IIm, VIm etc. And the secondary dominant progression C-A7-D7-G7 was written as I-VI-II-V as a variant of I-VIm-IIm-V7 (I-vi-ii-V7). I know there are still different systems of writing chord progressions in Jazz.
Somedays ago I've read somewhere that the Beatles had written many songs in modal harmony and not in major/minor. Looking at the chord progression my first association here has also been: Beatles. Yes, like others saying: Eight days a week!
So as there are certainly modal elements here ... it doesn't make sense to analyse it in RNA.
Except you could understand this solution: I-II-IV-I
my argumentation:
When I studied at Swiss Jazz School in the late sixties they didn't use the signs ii,iii, iv for minor chords. The notation was IIm, VIm etc. And the secondary dominant progression C-A7-D7-G7 was written as I-VI-II-V as a variant of I-VIm-IIm-V7 (I-vi-ii-V7). I know there are still different systems of writing chord progressions in Jazz.
answered yesterday
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
5,2101420
5,2101420
1
I first read about "Lydian II" here angelfire.com/fl4/moneychords/lydianprogression.html
– Michael Curtis
23 hours ago
1
That‘s it! I was also thinking of Lydian. For this I‘d call it the Beatles progression :)
– Albrecht Hügli
23 hours ago
add a comment |
1
I first read about "Lydian II" here angelfire.com/fl4/moneychords/lydianprogression.html
– Michael Curtis
23 hours ago
1
That‘s it! I was also thinking of Lydian. For this I‘d call it the Beatles progression :)
– Albrecht Hügli
23 hours ago
1
1
I first read about "Lydian II" here angelfire.com/fl4/moneychords/lydianprogression.html
– Michael Curtis
23 hours ago
I first read about "Lydian II" here angelfire.com/fl4/moneychords/lydianprogression.html
– Michael Curtis
23 hours ago
1
1
That‘s it! I was also thinking of Lydian. For this I‘d call it the Beatles progression :)
– Albrecht Hügli
23 hours ago
That‘s it! I was also thinking of Lydian. For this I‘d call it the Beatles progression :)
– Albrecht Hügli
23 hours ago
add a comment |
I'm going to go against the grain with other answers here and say that the C
is in fact a V/V
since it does in fact resolve to a V
, albeit momentarily. Listening to the recording, there's a momentary F
in the piano before resolving to Bb
which serves as the V/V-V-I
resolution we're expecting. It also make sense to play it this way as the voice leading is no longer parallel.
This is also more pleasant to the ear than an unresolved C
in the middle of an (admittedly key vague) piece. You'll find that if you play the chords without putting some leading tones in between C
and the next chord (Bb
again) it sounds quite odd. It's certainly odd to hang out on the V/V
, and this provides a certain tension, but I think it's quite functional in terms of the harmony.
I should also point out that this answer doesn't invalidate other answers, and it's entirely subjective really - all music is. However, I hear the V
fairly well despite the fact that it's buried in the mix, and I want to say that it makes just as much sense to my ears.
New contributor
Where does the Eb chord fit into what you hear? Do you mean you hear V/V-V-IV-I (C - F - Eb - Bb)?
– trlkly
10 hours ago
add a comment |
I'm going to go against the grain with other answers here and say that the C
is in fact a V/V
since it does in fact resolve to a V
, albeit momentarily. Listening to the recording, there's a momentary F
in the piano before resolving to Bb
which serves as the V/V-V-I
resolution we're expecting. It also make sense to play it this way as the voice leading is no longer parallel.
This is also more pleasant to the ear than an unresolved C
in the middle of an (admittedly key vague) piece. You'll find that if you play the chords without putting some leading tones in between C
and the next chord (Bb
again) it sounds quite odd. It's certainly odd to hang out on the V/V
, and this provides a certain tension, but I think it's quite functional in terms of the harmony.
I should also point out that this answer doesn't invalidate other answers, and it's entirely subjective really - all music is. However, I hear the V
fairly well despite the fact that it's buried in the mix, and I want to say that it makes just as much sense to my ears.
New contributor
Where does the Eb chord fit into what you hear? Do you mean you hear V/V-V-IV-I (C - F - Eb - Bb)?
– trlkly
10 hours ago
add a comment |
I'm going to go against the grain with other answers here and say that the C
is in fact a V/V
since it does in fact resolve to a V
, albeit momentarily. Listening to the recording, there's a momentary F
in the piano before resolving to Bb
which serves as the V/V-V-I
resolution we're expecting. It also make sense to play it this way as the voice leading is no longer parallel.
This is also more pleasant to the ear than an unresolved C
in the middle of an (admittedly key vague) piece. You'll find that if you play the chords without putting some leading tones in between C
and the next chord (Bb
again) it sounds quite odd. It's certainly odd to hang out on the V/V
, and this provides a certain tension, but I think it's quite functional in terms of the harmony.
I should also point out that this answer doesn't invalidate other answers, and it's entirely subjective really - all music is. However, I hear the V
fairly well despite the fact that it's buried in the mix, and I want to say that it makes just as much sense to my ears.
New contributor
I'm going to go against the grain with other answers here and say that the C
is in fact a V/V
since it does in fact resolve to a V
, albeit momentarily. Listening to the recording, there's a momentary F
in the piano before resolving to Bb
which serves as the V/V-V-I
resolution we're expecting. It also make sense to play it this way as the voice leading is no longer parallel.
This is also more pleasant to the ear than an unresolved C
in the middle of an (admittedly key vague) piece. You'll find that if you play the chords without putting some leading tones in between C
and the next chord (Bb
again) it sounds quite odd. It's certainly odd to hang out on the V/V
, and this provides a certain tension, but I think it's quite functional in terms of the harmony.
I should also point out that this answer doesn't invalidate other answers, and it's entirely subjective really - all music is. However, I hear the V
fairly well despite the fact that it's buried in the mix, and I want to say that it makes just as much sense to my ears.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 22 hours ago
gjsmogjsmo
311
311
New contributor
New contributor
Where does the Eb chord fit into what you hear? Do you mean you hear V/V-V-IV-I (C - F - Eb - Bb)?
– trlkly
10 hours ago
add a comment |
Where does the Eb chord fit into what you hear? Do you mean you hear V/V-V-IV-I (C - F - Eb - Bb)?
– trlkly
10 hours ago
Where does the Eb chord fit into what you hear? Do you mean you hear V/V-V-IV-I (C - F - Eb - Bb)?
– trlkly
10 hours ago
Where does the Eb chord fit into what you hear? Do you mean you hear V/V-V-IV-I (C - F - Eb - Bb)?
– trlkly
10 hours ago
add a comment |
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4
Just like the Beatles 'Eight Days a Week' for one.
– Tim
yesterday
I know the chromatic line based on the chords helps the chords flow more smoothly (starting with the Bb chord, F-E-Eb-D). As you said, this chord progression occurs in that song too.
– Lennon_Ashton
yesterday
2
I’m not an expert but if a chord is not followed by a chord that has a root a fifth lower, then it seems to make less sense to me to view it as a “V/“ anything. In other words, I wouldn’t normally view it as “V/V” if it’s not followed by the V chord.
– Todd Wilcox
yesterday
Right, exactly. That is what I was thinking and why I'm wondering what a better analysis would be.
– Lennon_Ashton
yesterday
1
Another option to consider for analysing this chord besides V/V or a lydian motif might simply be as the II chord.
– user45266
yesterday