Tjyylli

How can Republicans who favour free markets, consistently express anger when they don't like the outcome of that choice?

What makes accurate emulation of old systems a difficult task?

Was there a shared-world project before "Thieves World"?

Does a large simulator bay have standard public address announcements?

Is there any official lore on the Far Realm?

Minor Revision with suggestion of an alternative proof by reviewer

Can SQL Server create collisions in system generated constraint names?

What are the characteristics of a typeless programming language?

What is the most expensive material in the world that could be used to create Pun-Pun's lute?

A strange hotel

Why was the Spitfire's elliptical wing almost uncopied by other aircraft of World War 2?

"The cow" OR "a cow" OR "cows" in this context

What term is being referred to with "reflected-sound-of-underground-spirits"?

Should the Death Curse affect an undead PC in the Tomb of Annihilation adventure?

What's the polite way to say "I need to urinate"?

If a planet has 3 moons, is it possible to have triple Full/New Moons at once?

Checks user level and limit the data before saving it to mongoDB

Classification of surfaces

Relationship between strut and baselineskip

555 timer FM transmitter

Mistake in years of experience in resume?

Aligning equation numbers vertically

How do I check if a string is entirely made of the same substring?

How exactly does Hawking radiation decrease the mass of black holes?

Jaya, Venerated Firemage + Chandra's Pyrohelix = 4 damage among two targets?

Does Infect count as damage?Does Master of the Wild Hunt deal damage multiple times?How would Master of the Wild Hunt be worded if it targeted multiple creatures?Triggered abilities: Whenever a creature deals damageHow should the “and/or” text of a card be interpreted?Can Guttersnipe hit Planeswalkers?Would Guttersnipe plus a cyphered card result in an infinite loop of damage?Conditions about returning Chandra's Phoenix in one's handDoes first strike damage occur before normal damage?If I simultaneously kill my opponent and deck myself at the same time, is the game drawn?

6

I have a Jaya, Venerated Firemage in play and cast Chandra's Pyrohelix, targetting two creatures.

Jaya's static ability reads:
If another red source you control would deal damage to a permanent or player, it deals that much damage plus 1 to that permanent or player instead.

Pyrohelix reads:
Chandra's Pyrohelix deals 2 damage divided as you choose among one or two targets.

Does this mean that the two targets both get dealt two damage, because 1 damage gets replaced by 1+1 damage, so Pyrohelix deals four damage in total?

magic-the-gathering

share|improve this question

edited yesterday

Glorfindel

6,77112147

asked yesterday

reatterreatter

3316

add a comment | 

6

I have a Jaya, Venerated Firemage in play and cast Chandra's Pyrohelix, targetting two creatures.

Jaya's static ability reads:
If another red source you control would deal damage to a permanent or player, it deals that much damage plus 1 to that permanent or player instead.

Pyrohelix reads:
Chandra's Pyrohelix deals 2 damage divided as you choose among one or two targets.

Does this mean that the two targets both get dealt two damage, because 1 damage gets replaced by 1+1 damage, so Pyrohelix deals four damage in total?

magic-the-gathering

share|improve this question

edited yesterday

Glorfindel

6,77112147

asked yesterday

reatterreatter

3316

add a comment | 

I have a Jaya, Venerated Firemage in play and cast Chandra's Pyrohelix, targetting two creatures.

Jaya's static ability reads:
If another red source you control would deal damage to a permanent or player, it deals that much damage plus 1 to that permanent or player instead.

Pyrohelix reads:
Chandra's Pyrohelix deals 2 damage divided as you choose among one or two targets.

Does this mean that the two targets both get dealt two damage, because 1 damage gets replaced by 1+1 damage, so Pyrohelix deals four damage in total?

magic-the-gathering

share|improve this question

edited yesterday

Glorfindel

6,77112147

asked yesterday

reatterreatter

3316

share|improve this question

edited yesterday

Glorfindel

6,77112147

asked yesterday

reatterreatter

3316

share|improve this question

edited yesterday

Glorfindel

6,77112147

asked yesterday

reatterreatter

3316

edited yesterday

Glorfindel

6,77112147

edited yesterday

Glorfindel

6,77112147

asked yesterday

reatterreatter

3316

asked yesterday

reatterreatter

3316

2 Answers
2

active

oldest

votes

6

It would be four damage; this is indicated in the rulings below the card on Gatherer:

If damage dealt by a source you control is being divided or assigned among multiple permanents an opponent controls or among an opponent and one or more permanents they control simultaneously, divide the original amount before adding 1. For example, if you attack with a 5/5 red creature with trample and your opponent blocks with a 2/2 creature, you can assign 2 damage to the blocker and 3 damage to the defending player. These amounts are then modified to 3 and 4, respectively.

share|improve this answer

answered yesterday

GlorfindelGlorfindel

6,77112147

add a comment | 

3

Chandra's Pyrohelix will deal 4 damage total (2 to each target) because it's damage to each target is increased by 1.

While Jaya, Venerated Firemage has a ruling that supports this claim, I prefer the ruling on Pyromancer's Swath (which has a similar ability) for its brevity:

If damage is being dealt to multiple creatures and/or players at the same time, the damage being dealt to each one is increased

To explain why this is the ruling, the important thing is how Jaya's ability works. Jaya's ability, as indicated by the word "instead", is a replacement effect:

614.1. Some continuous effects are replacement effects. Like prevention effects (see rule 615), replacement effects apply continuously as events happen-they aren't locked in ahead of time. Such effects watch for a particular event that would happen and completely or partially replace that event with a different event.

614.1a Effects that use the word "instead" are replacement effects. Most replacement effects use the word "instead" to indicate what events will be replaced with other events.

So now, the question is, what is it replacing? The type of event Jaya is looking for is "another red source you control would deal damage to a permanent or player". Thus, when you cast a burn spell, Jaya is not replacing the total damage your spell deals, but rather the subtotal that it deals to each creature (or player or planeswalker).

The fact that Chandra's Pyrohelix divides its damage isn't relevant to the replacement effect. That choice happened when you cast the spell, creating a spell dealing 1 damage to each of two creatures. The replacement effect, meanwhile, is happening when the spell resolves. From the perspective of the replacement effect, there is no difference between Chandra's Pyrohelix (the way you are using it here) and Dual Shot.

share|improve this answer

edited yesterday

answered yesterday

ZagsZags

8,34031969

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I would argue there is a difference between dual shot and chandra's pyrohelix. One deals 2 damage divided as you choose to up to 2 targets, the other one deals 1 damage to up to 2 targets. if you only have 1 target, chandra's pyrohelix would deal 3 damage to that target while dual shot would only deal 2 damage (with Jaya's ability). Also neither of them allow 4 damage to the same creature to be dealt
  
  – fireshark519
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @fireshark519 I'm not claiming that they are equivalent spells. They are quite different when you cast them. I'm merely claiming that if you use Chandra's Pyrohelix in the way that is described in the question, it looks the same as Dual Shot at the point of resolution.
  
  – Zags
  yesterday
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

Your Answer

StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "147"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});

function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});


}
});

draft saved

draft discarded

Sign up or log in

StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});

Sign up using Google

Sign up using Facebook

Sign up using Email and Password

Post as a guest

Name

Email

Required, but never shown

StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fboardgames.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f47001%2fjaya-venerated-firemage-chandras-pyrohelix-4-damage-among-two-targets%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest

Name

Email

Required, but never shown

6

It would be four damage; this is indicated in the rulings below the card on Gatherer:

If damage dealt by a source you control is being divided or assigned among multiple permanents an opponent controls or among an opponent and one or more permanents they control simultaneously, divide the original amount before adding 1. For example, if you attack with a 5/5 red creature with trample and your opponent blocks with a 2/2 creature, you can assign 2 damage to the blocker and 3 damage to the defending player. These amounts are then modified to 3 and 4, respectively.

share|improve this answer

answered yesterday

GlorfindelGlorfindel

6,77112147

add a comment | 

6

It would be four damage; this is indicated in the rulings below the card on Gatherer:

If damage dealt by a source you control is being divided or assigned among multiple permanents an opponent controls or among an opponent and one or more permanents they control simultaneously, divide the original amount before adding 1. For example, if you attack with a 5/5 red creature with trample and your opponent blocks with a 2/2 creature, you can assign 2 damage to the blocker and 3 damage to the defending player. These amounts are then modified to 3 and 4, respectively.

share|improve this answer

answered yesterday

GlorfindelGlorfindel

6,77112147

add a comment | 

It would be four damage; this is indicated in the rulings below the card on Gatherer:

If damage dealt by a source you control is being divided or assigned among multiple permanents an opponent controls or among an opponent and one or more permanents they control simultaneously, divide the original amount before adding 1. For example, if you attack with a 5/5 red creature with trample and your opponent blocks with a 2/2 creature, you can assign 2 damage to the blocker and 3 damage to the defending player. These amounts are then modified to 3 and 4, respectively.

share|improve this answer

answered yesterday

GlorfindelGlorfindel

6,77112147

share|improve this answer

answered yesterday

GlorfindelGlorfindel

6,77112147

answered yesterday

GlorfindelGlorfindel

6,77112147

answered yesterday

GlorfindelGlorfindel

6,77112147

3

Chandra's Pyrohelix will deal 4 damage total (2 to each target) because it's damage to each target is increased by 1.

While Jaya, Venerated Firemage has a ruling that supports this claim, I prefer the ruling on Pyromancer's Swath (which has a similar ability) for its brevity:

If damage is being dealt to multiple creatures and/or players at the same time, the damage being dealt to each one is increased

To explain why this is the ruling, the important thing is how Jaya's ability works. Jaya's ability, as indicated by the word "instead", is a replacement effect:

614.1. Some continuous effects are replacement effects. Like prevention effects (see rule 615), replacement effects apply continuously as events happen-they aren't locked in ahead of time. Such effects watch for a particular event that would happen and completely or partially replace that event with a different event.

614.1a Effects that use the word "instead" are replacement effects. Most replacement effects use the word "instead" to indicate what events will be replaced with other events.

So now, the question is, what is it replacing? The type of event Jaya is looking for is "another red source you control would deal damage to a permanent or player". Thus, when you cast a burn spell, Jaya is not replacing the total damage your spell deals, but rather the subtotal that it deals to each creature (or player or planeswalker).

The fact that Chandra's Pyrohelix divides its damage isn't relevant to the replacement effect. That choice happened when you cast the spell, creating a spell dealing 1 damage to each of two creatures. The replacement effect, meanwhile, is happening when the spell resolves. From the perspective of the replacement effect, there is no difference between Chandra's Pyrohelix (the way you are using it here) and Dual Shot.

share|improve this answer

edited yesterday

answered yesterday

ZagsZags

8,34031969

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I would argue there is a difference between dual shot and chandra's pyrohelix. One deals 2 damage divided as you choose to up to 2 targets, the other one deals 1 damage to up to 2 targets. if you only have 1 target, chandra's pyrohelix would deal 3 damage to that target while dual shot would only deal 2 damage (with Jaya's ability). Also neither of them allow 4 damage to the same creature to be dealt
  
  – fireshark519
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @fireshark519 I'm not claiming that they are equivalent spells. They are quite different when you cast them. I'm merely claiming that if you use Chandra's Pyrohelix in the way that is described in the question, it looks the same as Dual Shot at the point of resolution.
  
  – Zags
  yesterday
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

3

Chandra's Pyrohelix will deal 4 damage total (2 to each target) because it's damage to each target is increased by 1.

While Jaya, Venerated Firemage has a ruling that supports this claim, I prefer the ruling on Pyromancer's Swath (which has a similar ability) for its brevity:

If damage is being dealt to multiple creatures and/or players at the same time, the damage being dealt to each one is increased

To explain why this is the ruling, the important thing is how Jaya's ability works. Jaya's ability, as indicated by the word "instead", is a replacement effect:

614.1. Some continuous effects are replacement effects. Like prevention effects (see rule 615), replacement effects apply continuously as events happen-they aren't locked in ahead of time. Such effects watch for a particular event that would happen and completely or partially replace that event with a different event.

614.1a Effects that use the word "instead" are replacement effects. Most replacement effects use the word "instead" to indicate what events will be replaced with other events.

So now, the question is, what is it replacing? The type of event Jaya is looking for is "another red source you control would deal damage to a permanent or player". Thus, when you cast a burn spell, Jaya is not replacing the total damage your spell deals, but rather the subtotal that it deals to each creature (or player or planeswalker).

The fact that Chandra's Pyrohelix divides its damage isn't relevant to the replacement effect. That choice happened when you cast the spell, creating a spell dealing 1 damage to each of two creatures. The replacement effect, meanwhile, is happening when the spell resolves. From the perspective of the replacement effect, there is no difference between Chandra's Pyrohelix (the way you are using it here) and Dual Shot.

share|improve this answer

edited yesterday

answered yesterday

ZagsZags

8,34031969

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I would argue there is a difference between dual shot and chandra's pyrohelix. One deals 2 damage divided as you choose to up to 2 targets, the other one deals 1 damage to up to 2 targets. if you only have 1 target, chandra's pyrohelix would deal 3 damage to that target while dual shot would only deal 2 damage (with Jaya's ability). Also neither of them allow 4 damage to the same creature to be dealt
  
  – fireshark519
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @fireshark519 I'm not claiming that they are equivalent spells. They are quite different when you cast them. I'm merely claiming that if you use Chandra's Pyrohelix in the way that is described in the question, it looks the same as Dual Shot at the point of resolution.
  
  – Zags
  yesterday
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

Chandra's Pyrohelix will deal 4 damage total (2 to each target) because it's damage to each target is increased by 1.

While Jaya, Venerated Firemage has a ruling that supports this claim, I prefer the ruling on Pyromancer's Swath (which has a similar ability) for its brevity:

If damage is being dealt to multiple creatures and/or players at the same time, the damage being dealt to each one is increased

To explain why this is the ruling, the important thing is how Jaya's ability works. Jaya's ability, as indicated by the word "instead", is a replacement effect:

614.1. Some continuous effects are replacement effects. Like prevention effects (see rule 615), replacement effects apply continuously as events happen-they aren't locked in ahead of time. Such effects watch for a particular event that would happen and completely or partially replace that event with a different event.

614.1a Effects that use the word "instead" are replacement effects. Most replacement effects use the word "instead" to indicate what events will be replaced with other events.

So now, the question is, what is it replacing? The type of event Jaya is looking for is "another red source you control would deal damage to a permanent or player". Thus, when you cast a burn spell, Jaya is not replacing the total damage your spell deals, but rather the subtotal that it deals to each creature (or player or planeswalker).

The fact that Chandra's Pyrohelix divides its damage isn't relevant to the replacement effect. That choice happened when you cast the spell, creating a spell dealing 1 damage to each of two creatures. The replacement effect, meanwhile, is happening when the spell resolves. From the perspective of the replacement effect, there is no difference between Chandra's Pyrohelix (the way you are using it here) and Dual Shot.

share|improve this answer

edited yesterday

answered yesterday

ZagsZags

8,34031969

share|improve this answer

edited yesterday

answered yesterday

ZagsZags

8,34031969

answered yesterday

ZagsZags

8,34031969

answered yesterday

ZagsZags

8,34031969