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Is nibbana eternal?


Enlightenment vs nibbana/nirvanaIs Nirvana eternal?How is Nibbana unconditioned?Where is Nibbana/Nirvana being Unconditioned stated in the Canon?Is it possible to describe nibbana?What are the conditions necessary for Nibbana?Does Nibbana mean not self?Does any real existent or genuine person end with parinibbana?How can we conclude that something is unarisen and eternal?Does Nibbana lie within The All or not?













3
















Arising dhamma is ceasing dhamma so much as ceasing dhamma is arising dhamma as well.




What does this mean? The answer should be nibbana is not eternal either.



I'm asking about the Pali in this quote from SN 56.11:




And while this discourse was being spoken, the stainless, immaculate vision of the Dhamma arose in Venerable Koṇḍañña:



Imasmiñca pana veyyākaraṇasmiṃ bhaññamāne āyasmato koṇḍaññassa virajaṃ vītamalaṃ dhammacakkhuṃ udapādi:



“Everything that has a beginning has an end.”



“yaṃ kiñci samudayadhammaṃ sabbaṃ taṃ nirodhadhamman”ti.











share|improve this question

























  • Is the first sentence ("Arising dhamma is ceasing") a quote? Where is it from, what is that quoting?

    – ChrisW
    5 hours ago











  • Imasmiñca pana veyyākaraṇasmiṃ bhaññamāne āyasmato koṇḍaññassa virajaṃ vītamalaṃ dhammacakkhuṃ udapādi – ‘‘ yaṃ kiñci samudayadhammaṃ, sabbaṃ taṃ nirodhadhamma ’’ nti

    – X-pression
    4 hours ago











  • Thank you for explaining. I added that quote to the question (together with Ven. Sujato's translation of it).

    – ChrisW
    4 hours ago











  • Thank you Chris. What I would like to say is as simple as we don't hope the world be with complete cessation of suffering. That would make another sort of craving in this world.

    – X-pression
    4 hours ago











  • Standard question. Below there are three standard correct answers therefore it is not necessary for me to repeat. Only conditioned things (sankhara) are impermanent. The uncondiitioned (visankhara) is permanent.

    – Dhammadhatu
    10 mins ago


















3
















Arising dhamma is ceasing dhamma so much as ceasing dhamma is arising dhamma as well.




What does this mean? The answer should be nibbana is not eternal either.



I'm asking about the Pali in this quote from SN 56.11:




And while this discourse was being spoken, the stainless, immaculate vision of the Dhamma arose in Venerable Koṇḍañña:



Imasmiñca pana veyyākaraṇasmiṃ bhaññamāne āyasmato koṇḍaññassa virajaṃ vītamalaṃ dhammacakkhuṃ udapādi:



“Everything that has a beginning has an end.”



“yaṃ kiñci samudayadhammaṃ sabbaṃ taṃ nirodhadhamman”ti.











share|improve this question

























  • Is the first sentence ("Arising dhamma is ceasing") a quote? Where is it from, what is that quoting?

    – ChrisW
    5 hours ago











  • Imasmiñca pana veyyākaraṇasmiṃ bhaññamāne āyasmato koṇḍaññassa virajaṃ vītamalaṃ dhammacakkhuṃ udapādi – ‘‘ yaṃ kiñci samudayadhammaṃ, sabbaṃ taṃ nirodhadhamma ’’ nti

    – X-pression
    4 hours ago











  • Thank you for explaining. I added that quote to the question (together with Ven. Sujato's translation of it).

    – ChrisW
    4 hours ago











  • Thank you Chris. What I would like to say is as simple as we don't hope the world be with complete cessation of suffering. That would make another sort of craving in this world.

    – X-pression
    4 hours ago











  • Standard question. Below there are three standard correct answers therefore it is not necessary for me to repeat. Only conditioned things (sankhara) are impermanent. The uncondiitioned (visankhara) is permanent.

    – Dhammadhatu
    10 mins ago
















3












3








3









Arising dhamma is ceasing dhamma so much as ceasing dhamma is arising dhamma as well.




What does this mean? The answer should be nibbana is not eternal either.



I'm asking about the Pali in this quote from SN 56.11:




And while this discourse was being spoken, the stainless, immaculate vision of the Dhamma arose in Venerable Koṇḍañña:



Imasmiñca pana veyyākaraṇasmiṃ bhaññamāne āyasmato koṇḍaññassa virajaṃ vītamalaṃ dhammacakkhuṃ udapādi:



“Everything that has a beginning has an end.”



“yaṃ kiñci samudayadhammaṃ sabbaṃ taṃ nirodhadhamman”ti.











share|improve this question

















Arising dhamma is ceasing dhamma so much as ceasing dhamma is arising dhamma as well.




What does this mean? The answer should be nibbana is not eternal either.



I'm asking about the Pali in this quote from SN 56.11:




And while this discourse was being spoken, the stainless, immaculate vision of the Dhamma arose in Venerable Koṇḍañña:



Imasmiñca pana veyyākaraṇasmiṃ bhaññamāne āyasmato koṇḍaññassa virajaṃ vītamalaṃ dhammacakkhuṃ udapādi:



“Everything that has a beginning has an end.”



“yaṃ kiñci samudayadhammaṃ sabbaṃ taṃ nirodhadhamman”ti.








nirvana






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 4 hours ago









ChrisW

29.9k42485




29.9k42485










asked 5 hours ago









X-pressionX-pression

455




455













  • Is the first sentence ("Arising dhamma is ceasing") a quote? Where is it from, what is that quoting?

    – ChrisW
    5 hours ago











  • Imasmiñca pana veyyākaraṇasmiṃ bhaññamāne āyasmato koṇḍaññassa virajaṃ vītamalaṃ dhammacakkhuṃ udapādi – ‘‘ yaṃ kiñci samudayadhammaṃ, sabbaṃ taṃ nirodhadhamma ’’ nti

    – X-pression
    4 hours ago











  • Thank you for explaining. I added that quote to the question (together with Ven. Sujato's translation of it).

    – ChrisW
    4 hours ago











  • Thank you Chris. What I would like to say is as simple as we don't hope the world be with complete cessation of suffering. That would make another sort of craving in this world.

    – X-pression
    4 hours ago











  • Standard question. Below there are three standard correct answers therefore it is not necessary for me to repeat. Only conditioned things (sankhara) are impermanent. The uncondiitioned (visankhara) is permanent.

    – Dhammadhatu
    10 mins ago





















  • Is the first sentence ("Arising dhamma is ceasing") a quote? Where is it from, what is that quoting?

    – ChrisW
    5 hours ago











  • Imasmiñca pana veyyākaraṇasmiṃ bhaññamāne āyasmato koṇḍaññassa virajaṃ vītamalaṃ dhammacakkhuṃ udapādi – ‘‘ yaṃ kiñci samudayadhammaṃ, sabbaṃ taṃ nirodhadhamma ’’ nti

    – X-pression
    4 hours ago











  • Thank you for explaining. I added that quote to the question (together with Ven. Sujato's translation of it).

    – ChrisW
    4 hours ago











  • Thank you Chris. What I would like to say is as simple as we don't hope the world be with complete cessation of suffering. That would make another sort of craving in this world.

    – X-pression
    4 hours ago











  • Standard question. Below there are three standard correct answers therefore it is not necessary for me to repeat. Only conditioned things (sankhara) are impermanent. The uncondiitioned (visankhara) is permanent.

    – Dhammadhatu
    10 mins ago



















Is the first sentence ("Arising dhamma is ceasing") a quote? Where is it from, what is that quoting?

– ChrisW
5 hours ago





Is the first sentence ("Arising dhamma is ceasing") a quote? Where is it from, what is that quoting?

– ChrisW
5 hours ago













Imasmiñca pana veyyākaraṇasmiṃ bhaññamāne āyasmato koṇḍaññassa virajaṃ vītamalaṃ dhammacakkhuṃ udapādi – ‘‘ yaṃ kiñci samudayadhammaṃ, sabbaṃ taṃ nirodhadhamma ’’ nti

– X-pression
4 hours ago





Imasmiñca pana veyyākaraṇasmiṃ bhaññamāne āyasmato koṇḍaññassa virajaṃ vītamalaṃ dhammacakkhuṃ udapādi – ‘‘ yaṃ kiñci samudayadhammaṃ, sabbaṃ taṃ nirodhadhamma ’’ nti

– X-pression
4 hours ago













Thank you for explaining. I added that quote to the question (together with Ven. Sujato's translation of it).

– ChrisW
4 hours ago





Thank you for explaining. I added that quote to the question (together with Ven. Sujato's translation of it).

– ChrisW
4 hours ago













Thank you Chris. What I would like to say is as simple as we don't hope the world be with complete cessation of suffering. That would make another sort of craving in this world.

– X-pression
4 hours ago





Thank you Chris. What I would like to say is as simple as we don't hope the world be with complete cessation of suffering. That would make another sort of craving in this world.

– X-pression
4 hours ago













Standard question. Below there are three standard correct answers therefore it is not necessary for me to repeat. Only conditioned things (sankhara) are impermanent. The uncondiitioned (visankhara) is permanent.

– Dhammadhatu
10 mins ago







Standard question. Below there are three standard correct answers therefore it is not necessary for me to repeat. Only conditioned things (sankhara) are impermanent. The uncondiitioned (visankhara) is permanent.

– Dhammadhatu
10 mins ago












3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















1














"Everything that has a beginning has an end.” means every-thing, every conditioned, manifested thing is impermanent. Nibbana is not conditioned and it is not manifested state, so it does not have a beginning or end



My English is not good so I looked to the meaning of eternal. It says that: "lasting or existing forever; without end"



If you try to describe Nibbana with using "time" then it won't lead you to the right direction because Nibbana is the unconditioned. It is timeless. You can use that term, If you mean being "deathless" by saying eternal. Nibbana is free from any conditioned state. It is free from birth, death, time. It is the unmanifested state.



Thich Nhat Hanh wonderfully talks about Nibbana: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odWIPhj-ivo






share|improve this answer

































    1














    The pali is the usual “yaṃ kiñci samudayadhammaṃ sabbaṃ taṃ nirodhadhamman”ti, which is the usual, badly said: whatever will samudaya will nirodha. so it is the usual whatever is subject to arising will cease too.



    And nibanna does not arise and does not cease, that's the whole point of nibanna.






    share|improve this answer
























    • Before whatever arises it is nibbana. After whatever ceases it is nibbana. After whatever arises it is not nibbana as much as before whatever ceases it is not nibbana either. Therefore nibbana is not eternal.

      – X-pression
      3 hours ago













    • The above comment is incomprehensible.

      – Dhammadhatu
      7 mins ago



















    1














    What we usually understand as happiness is dependent on specific condition, which need to be controlled, arranged, fulfilled and satisfied in order to reach that specific and temporary state.



    The happiness of Nibbana is what remains after removing the desire for control and satisfaction of the senses and the ego. If you eliminate the conditions for suffering, what remains is peace without conditions. Thus, you don't need anything in special to feel satisfied, because craving, aversion and ignorance have been eradicated. You feel content because you took off what blocked that peace of simplicity and renunciation.



    That's why it's called "The Unconditioned".



    As long as the conditions (craving, aversion and delusion) are uprooted, Nibbana should be eternal. If those conditions are still there in the mind, then, at most, you can have "glimpses" of Nibbana.



    Also, remember that:
    "Sabbe sankhara anicca": everything conditioned is impermanent.



    "Sabbe sankhara dukkha": everything conditioned is unsatisfactory.



    "Sabbe dhamma anatta": all dhammas are not-self



    The word "Dhamma" can be used to talk about the Buddha's teachings, as well to refer to any phenomena. It all depends on the context. And I think the quote you posted is talking about conditioned dhammas, i.e. sankharas.



    Kind regards!






    share|improve this answer

























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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      1














      "Everything that has a beginning has an end.” means every-thing, every conditioned, manifested thing is impermanent. Nibbana is not conditioned and it is not manifested state, so it does not have a beginning or end



      My English is not good so I looked to the meaning of eternal. It says that: "lasting or existing forever; without end"



      If you try to describe Nibbana with using "time" then it won't lead you to the right direction because Nibbana is the unconditioned. It is timeless. You can use that term, If you mean being "deathless" by saying eternal. Nibbana is free from any conditioned state. It is free from birth, death, time. It is the unmanifested state.



      Thich Nhat Hanh wonderfully talks about Nibbana: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odWIPhj-ivo






      share|improve this answer






























        1














        "Everything that has a beginning has an end.” means every-thing, every conditioned, manifested thing is impermanent. Nibbana is not conditioned and it is not manifested state, so it does not have a beginning or end



        My English is not good so I looked to the meaning of eternal. It says that: "lasting or existing forever; without end"



        If you try to describe Nibbana with using "time" then it won't lead you to the right direction because Nibbana is the unconditioned. It is timeless. You can use that term, If you mean being "deathless" by saying eternal. Nibbana is free from any conditioned state. It is free from birth, death, time. It is the unmanifested state.



        Thich Nhat Hanh wonderfully talks about Nibbana: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odWIPhj-ivo






        share|improve this answer




























          1












          1








          1







          "Everything that has a beginning has an end.” means every-thing, every conditioned, manifested thing is impermanent. Nibbana is not conditioned and it is not manifested state, so it does not have a beginning or end



          My English is not good so I looked to the meaning of eternal. It says that: "lasting or existing forever; without end"



          If you try to describe Nibbana with using "time" then it won't lead you to the right direction because Nibbana is the unconditioned. It is timeless. You can use that term, If you mean being "deathless" by saying eternal. Nibbana is free from any conditioned state. It is free from birth, death, time. It is the unmanifested state.



          Thich Nhat Hanh wonderfully talks about Nibbana: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odWIPhj-ivo






          share|improve this answer















          "Everything that has a beginning has an end.” means every-thing, every conditioned, manifested thing is impermanent. Nibbana is not conditioned and it is not manifested state, so it does not have a beginning or end



          My English is not good so I looked to the meaning of eternal. It says that: "lasting or existing forever; without end"



          If you try to describe Nibbana with using "time" then it won't lead you to the right direction because Nibbana is the unconditioned. It is timeless. You can use that term, If you mean being "deathless" by saying eternal. Nibbana is free from any conditioned state. It is free from birth, death, time. It is the unmanifested state.



          Thich Nhat Hanh wonderfully talks about Nibbana: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odWIPhj-ivo







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 4 hours ago

























          answered 4 hours ago









          Murathan1Murathan1

          34925




          34925























              1














              The pali is the usual “yaṃ kiñci samudayadhammaṃ sabbaṃ taṃ nirodhadhamman”ti, which is the usual, badly said: whatever will samudaya will nirodha. so it is the usual whatever is subject to arising will cease too.



              And nibanna does not arise and does not cease, that's the whole point of nibanna.






              share|improve this answer
























              • Before whatever arises it is nibbana. After whatever ceases it is nibbana. After whatever arises it is not nibbana as much as before whatever ceases it is not nibbana either. Therefore nibbana is not eternal.

                – X-pression
                3 hours ago













              • The above comment is incomprehensible.

                – Dhammadhatu
                7 mins ago
















              1














              The pali is the usual “yaṃ kiñci samudayadhammaṃ sabbaṃ taṃ nirodhadhamman”ti, which is the usual, badly said: whatever will samudaya will nirodha. so it is the usual whatever is subject to arising will cease too.



              And nibanna does not arise and does not cease, that's the whole point of nibanna.






              share|improve this answer
























              • Before whatever arises it is nibbana. After whatever ceases it is nibbana. After whatever arises it is not nibbana as much as before whatever ceases it is not nibbana either. Therefore nibbana is not eternal.

                – X-pression
                3 hours ago













              • The above comment is incomprehensible.

                – Dhammadhatu
                7 mins ago














              1












              1








              1







              The pali is the usual “yaṃ kiñci samudayadhammaṃ sabbaṃ taṃ nirodhadhamman”ti, which is the usual, badly said: whatever will samudaya will nirodha. so it is the usual whatever is subject to arising will cease too.



              And nibanna does not arise and does not cease, that's the whole point of nibanna.






              share|improve this answer













              The pali is the usual “yaṃ kiñci samudayadhammaṃ sabbaṃ taṃ nirodhadhamman”ti, which is the usual, badly said: whatever will samudaya will nirodha. so it is the usual whatever is subject to arising will cease too.



              And nibanna does not arise and does not cease, that's the whole point of nibanna.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 3 hours ago









              user12901user12901

              2231




              2231













              • Before whatever arises it is nibbana. After whatever ceases it is nibbana. After whatever arises it is not nibbana as much as before whatever ceases it is not nibbana either. Therefore nibbana is not eternal.

                – X-pression
                3 hours ago













              • The above comment is incomprehensible.

                – Dhammadhatu
                7 mins ago



















              • Before whatever arises it is nibbana. After whatever ceases it is nibbana. After whatever arises it is not nibbana as much as before whatever ceases it is not nibbana either. Therefore nibbana is not eternal.

                – X-pression
                3 hours ago













              • The above comment is incomprehensible.

                – Dhammadhatu
                7 mins ago

















              Before whatever arises it is nibbana. After whatever ceases it is nibbana. After whatever arises it is not nibbana as much as before whatever ceases it is not nibbana either. Therefore nibbana is not eternal.

              – X-pression
              3 hours ago







              Before whatever arises it is nibbana. After whatever ceases it is nibbana. After whatever arises it is not nibbana as much as before whatever ceases it is not nibbana either. Therefore nibbana is not eternal.

              – X-pression
              3 hours ago















              The above comment is incomprehensible.

              – Dhammadhatu
              7 mins ago





              The above comment is incomprehensible.

              – Dhammadhatu
              7 mins ago











              1














              What we usually understand as happiness is dependent on specific condition, which need to be controlled, arranged, fulfilled and satisfied in order to reach that specific and temporary state.



              The happiness of Nibbana is what remains after removing the desire for control and satisfaction of the senses and the ego. If you eliminate the conditions for suffering, what remains is peace without conditions. Thus, you don't need anything in special to feel satisfied, because craving, aversion and ignorance have been eradicated. You feel content because you took off what blocked that peace of simplicity and renunciation.



              That's why it's called "The Unconditioned".



              As long as the conditions (craving, aversion and delusion) are uprooted, Nibbana should be eternal. If those conditions are still there in the mind, then, at most, you can have "glimpses" of Nibbana.



              Also, remember that:
              "Sabbe sankhara anicca": everything conditioned is impermanent.



              "Sabbe sankhara dukkha": everything conditioned is unsatisfactory.



              "Sabbe dhamma anatta": all dhammas are not-self



              The word "Dhamma" can be used to talk about the Buddha's teachings, as well to refer to any phenomena. It all depends on the context. And I think the quote you posted is talking about conditioned dhammas, i.e. sankharas.



              Kind regards!






              share|improve this answer






























                1














                What we usually understand as happiness is dependent on specific condition, which need to be controlled, arranged, fulfilled and satisfied in order to reach that specific and temporary state.



                The happiness of Nibbana is what remains after removing the desire for control and satisfaction of the senses and the ego. If you eliminate the conditions for suffering, what remains is peace without conditions. Thus, you don't need anything in special to feel satisfied, because craving, aversion and ignorance have been eradicated. You feel content because you took off what blocked that peace of simplicity and renunciation.



                That's why it's called "The Unconditioned".



                As long as the conditions (craving, aversion and delusion) are uprooted, Nibbana should be eternal. If those conditions are still there in the mind, then, at most, you can have "glimpses" of Nibbana.



                Also, remember that:
                "Sabbe sankhara anicca": everything conditioned is impermanent.



                "Sabbe sankhara dukkha": everything conditioned is unsatisfactory.



                "Sabbe dhamma anatta": all dhammas are not-self



                The word "Dhamma" can be used to talk about the Buddha's teachings, as well to refer to any phenomena. It all depends on the context. And I think the quote you posted is talking about conditioned dhammas, i.e. sankharas.



                Kind regards!






                share|improve this answer




























                  1












                  1








                  1







                  What we usually understand as happiness is dependent on specific condition, which need to be controlled, arranged, fulfilled and satisfied in order to reach that specific and temporary state.



                  The happiness of Nibbana is what remains after removing the desire for control and satisfaction of the senses and the ego. If you eliminate the conditions for suffering, what remains is peace without conditions. Thus, you don't need anything in special to feel satisfied, because craving, aversion and ignorance have been eradicated. You feel content because you took off what blocked that peace of simplicity and renunciation.



                  That's why it's called "The Unconditioned".



                  As long as the conditions (craving, aversion and delusion) are uprooted, Nibbana should be eternal. If those conditions are still there in the mind, then, at most, you can have "glimpses" of Nibbana.



                  Also, remember that:
                  "Sabbe sankhara anicca": everything conditioned is impermanent.



                  "Sabbe sankhara dukkha": everything conditioned is unsatisfactory.



                  "Sabbe dhamma anatta": all dhammas are not-self



                  The word "Dhamma" can be used to talk about the Buddha's teachings, as well to refer to any phenomena. It all depends on the context. And I think the quote you posted is talking about conditioned dhammas, i.e. sankharas.



                  Kind regards!






                  share|improve this answer















                  What we usually understand as happiness is dependent on specific condition, which need to be controlled, arranged, fulfilled and satisfied in order to reach that specific and temporary state.



                  The happiness of Nibbana is what remains after removing the desire for control and satisfaction of the senses and the ego. If you eliminate the conditions for suffering, what remains is peace without conditions. Thus, you don't need anything in special to feel satisfied, because craving, aversion and ignorance have been eradicated. You feel content because you took off what blocked that peace of simplicity and renunciation.



                  That's why it's called "The Unconditioned".



                  As long as the conditions (craving, aversion and delusion) are uprooted, Nibbana should be eternal. If those conditions are still there in the mind, then, at most, you can have "glimpses" of Nibbana.



                  Also, remember that:
                  "Sabbe sankhara anicca": everything conditioned is impermanent.



                  "Sabbe sankhara dukkha": everything conditioned is unsatisfactory.



                  "Sabbe dhamma anatta": all dhammas are not-self



                  The word "Dhamma" can be used to talk about the Buddha's teachings, as well to refer to any phenomena. It all depends on the context. And I think the quote you posted is talking about conditioned dhammas, i.e. sankharas.



                  Kind regards!







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                  edited 1 hour ago

























                  answered 1 hour ago









                  Brian Díaz FloresBrian Díaz Flores

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