MT “will strike” & LXX “will watch carefully” (Gen 3:15)? The Next CEO of Stack...
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MT “will strike” & LXX “will watch carefully” (Gen 3:15)?
The Next CEO of Stack OverflowWho is the serpent's seed in Genesis 3:15?How is the Septuagint interpretation of Psalms 40:6 reconciled with the Hebrew text?What is the historical basis for viewing Genesis 3:15 as the 'protoevangelium'?How do we know that the 'land' in Gen 15:13 is Egypt?What's the difference in Gen. 3:15 in the Septuagint in the word σπέρματος and σπέρματόςRelationship between Abrahamic and Canaanite religion?In Genesis 3:14–19, does the order of cursing & curses reflect the gravity of the transgression?What's the difference between σπέρματί σπέρμα σπέρματόςWho is the serpent's seed in Genesis 3:15?The incongruity of God's covenant with Abram in Gen 12:1?Is Genesis 3:15 correctly translated?
I haven't seen this question asked at all in the threads I've searched, so this shouldn't be a duplicate.
I've been looking for answers about God's curse over the serpent in Gen 3:15. The question I originally had is stated in this thread. I would go there and ask my questions/comments but I'm too new and I don't have enough rep to comment yet. So I tried looking for answers myself, I found an interesting difference between the Hebrew text (LEB) and the Septuagint (LES) on Logos Bible Software:
Genesis 3:15 (LEB): 15 And I will put hostility between you and between the woman, and between your offspring and between her offspring; he will strike [שׁוף sh-w-p] you on the head, and you will strike [שׁוף sh-w-p] him on the heel.”
Genesis 3:15 (LES): 15 I will place enmity between you and between the woman, and between your seed and between her seed; he will watch carefully [τηρέω tereo] your head, and you will watch carefully [τηρέω tereo] his heel.”
Questions What's the meaning behind this supposed translation difference? Is it really different, or does שׁוף in Gen 3:15 actually mean something like "watch carefully; keep; guard" as the LXX writers seem to suggest? What are some good resources to use to understand the LXX writers' decisions?
Also, am I allowed to ask a related (but distinct) question in this thread too, such as the one in the hyperlink, or do I have to wait to get enough rep to participate in the thread above? I'm really curious about all of Gen 3.
greek hebrew genesis septuagint masoretic-text
asked 6 hours ago
el_maizel_maiz
566
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I haven't seen this question asked at all in the threads I've searched, so this shouldn't be a duplicate.
I've been looking for answers about God's curse over the serpent in Gen 3:15. The question I originally had is stated in this thread. I would go there and ask my questions/comments but I'm too new and I don't have enough rep to comment yet. So I tried looking for answers myself, I found an interesting difference between the Hebrew text (LEB) and the Septuagint (LES) on Logos Bible Software:
Genesis 3:15 (LEB): 15 And I will put hostility between you and between the woman, and between your offspring and between her offspring; he will strike [שׁוף sh-w-p] you on the head, and you will strike [שׁוף sh-w-p] him on the heel.”
Genesis 3:15 (LES): 15 I will place enmity between you and between the woman, and between your seed and between her seed; he will watch carefully [τηρέω tereo] your head, and you will watch carefully [τηρέω tereo] his heel.”
Questions What's the meaning behind this supposed translation difference? Is it really different, or does שׁוף in Gen 3:15 actually mean something like "watch carefully; keep; guard" as the LXX writers seem to suggest? What are some good resources to use to understand the LXX writers' decisions?
Also, am I allowed to ask a related (but distinct) question in this thread too, such as the one in the hyperlink, or do I have to wait to get enough rep to participate in the thread above? I'm really curious about all of Gen 3.
greek hebrew genesis septuagint masoretic-text
asked 6 hours ago
el_maizel_maiz
566
New contributor
el_maiz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
I haven't seen this question asked at all in the threads I've searched, so this shouldn't be a duplicate.
I've been looking for answers about God's curse over the serpent in Gen 3:15. The question I originally had is stated in this thread. I would go there and ask my questions/comments but I'm too new and I don't have enough rep to comment yet. So I tried looking for answers myself, I found an interesting difference between the Hebrew text (LEB) and the Septuagint (LES) on Logos Bible Software:
Genesis 3:15 (LEB): 15 And I will put hostility between you and between the woman, and between your offspring and between her offspring; he will strike [שׁוף sh-w-p] you on the head, and you will strike [שׁוף sh-w-p] him on the heel.”
Genesis 3:15 (LES): 15 I will place enmity between you and between the woman, and between your seed and between her seed; he will watch carefully [τηρέω tereo] your head, and you will watch carefully [τηρέω tereo] his heel.”
Questions What's the meaning behind this supposed translation difference? Is it really different, or does שׁוף in Gen 3:15 actually mean something like "watch carefully; keep; guard" as the LXX writers seem to suggest? What are some good resources to use to understand the LXX writers' decisions?
Also, am I allowed to ask a related (but distinct) question in this thread too, such as the one in the hyperlink, or do I have to wait to get enough rep to participate in the thread above? I'm really curious about all of Gen 3.
greek hebrew genesis septuagint masoretic-text
asked 6 hours ago
el_maizel_maiz
566
New contributor
el_maiz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
I haven't seen this question asked at all in the threads I've searched, so this shouldn't be a duplicate.
I've been looking for answers about God's curse over the serpent in Gen 3:15. The question I originally had is stated in this thread. I would go there and ask my questions/comments but I'm too new and I don't have enough rep to comment yet. So I tried looking for answers myself, I found an interesting difference between the Hebrew text (LEB) and the Septuagint (LES) on Logos Bible Software:
Genesis 3:15 (LEB): 15 And I will put hostility between you and between the woman, and between your offspring and between her offspring; he will strike [שׁוף sh-w-p] you on the head, and you will strike [שׁוף sh-w-p] him on the heel.”
Genesis 3:15 (LES): 15 I will place enmity between you and between the woman, and between your seed and between her seed; he will watch carefully [τηρέω tereo] your head, and you will watch carefully [τηρέω tereo] his heel.”
Questions What's the meaning behind this supposed translation difference? Is it really different, or does שׁוף in Gen 3:15 actually mean something like "watch carefully; keep; guard" as the LXX writers seem to suggest? What are some good resources to use to understand the LXX writers' decisions?
Also, am I allowed to ask a related (but distinct) question in this thread too, such as the one in the hyperlink, or do I have to wait to get enough rep to participate in the thread above? I'm really curious about all of Gen 3.
greek hebrew genesis septuagint masoretic-text
greek hebrew genesis septuagint masoretic-text
asked 6 hours ago
el_maizel_maiz
566
New contributor
el_maiz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 6 hours ago
el_maizel_maiz
566
New contributor
el_maiz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 6 hours ago
el_maizel_maiz
566
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el_maiz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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asked 6 hours ago
el_maizel_maiz
566
asked 6 hours ago
el_maizel_maiz
566
566
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2 Answers
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The hebrew root שׁוף means 'to bruise, to strike or to crush'.
The greek word τηρέω is able to translate as 'to watch carefully', but the indicative future like in Gen 3,15, it means 'to lie in ambush for someone'.
If we translate τηρήσει with 'to lie in ambush for someone', we will get a similar meaning like the hebrew text, because emphasises the hostility between the woman and the serpant.
I translated the hebrew word with the Gesenius und the greek word with the Gemoll.
answered 5 hours ago
FlyingDragonFlyingDragon
562
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Thanks, this is exactly the type of answer I was hoping for. Since τηρέω can have the meaning "to lie in ambush", can the reader infer a connection between Gen 3:15 and Gen 4:7? I ask because the FSB has a note about sin "is crouching" (רבץ ravats); apparently רבץ is a cognate of the Akkadian word "rabitsu", referring to an ambushing guardian-demon. Maybe I should make a separate thread for this question.
– el_maiz
4 hours ago
add a comment |
This lexicon of the LXX attributes it to a textual error in the LXX:
*Gn 3,15 τηρήσει he will lie in wait, he will watch corr.? τειρήσει he will bruise, he will break for MT ⋄ שׁוף he will bruise
Lust, J., Eynikel, E., & Hauspie, K. (2003). A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint : Revised Edition. Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft: Stuttgart.
The correction is not a easy word to find the meaning of.
answered 4 hours ago
Perry WebbPerry Webb
1,4291217
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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The hebrew root שׁוף means 'to bruise, to strike or to crush'.
The greek word τηρέω is able to translate as 'to watch carefully', but the indicative future like in Gen 3,15, it means 'to lie in ambush for someone'.
If we translate τηρήσει with 'to lie in ambush for someone', we will get a similar meaning like the hebrew text, because emphasises the hostility between the woman and the serpant.
I translated the hebrew word with the Gesenius und the greek word with the Gemoll.
answered 5 hours ago
FlyingDragonFlyingDragon
562
New contributor
FlyingDragon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Thanks, this is exactly the type of answer I was hoping for. Since τηρέω can have the meaning "to lie in ambush", can the reader infer a connection between Gen 3:15 and Gen 4:7? I ask because the FSB has a note about sin "is crouching" (רבץ ravats); apparently רבץ is a cognate of the Akkadian word "rabitsu", referring to an ambushing guardian-demon. Maybe I should make a separate thread for this question.
– el_maiz
4 hours ago
add a comment |
The hebrew root שׁוף means 'to bruise, to strike or to crush'.
The greek word τηρέω is able to translate as 'to watch carefully', but the indicative future like in Gen 3,15, it means 'to lie in ambush for someone'.
If we translate τηρήσει with 'to lie in ambush for someone', we will get a similar meaning like the hebrew text, because emphasises the hostility between the woman and the serpant.
I translated the hebrew word with the Gesenius und the greek word with the Gemoll.
answered 5 hours ago
FlyingDragonFlyingDragon
562
New contributor
FlyingDragon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Thanks, this is exactly the type of answer I was hoping for. Since τηρέω can have the meaning "to lie in ambush", can the reader infer a connection between Gen 3:15 and Gen 4:7? I ask because the FSB has a note about sin "is crouching" (רבץ ravats); apparently רבץ is a cognate of the Akkadian word "rabitsu", referring to an ambushing guardian-demon. Maybe I should make a separate thread for this question.
– el_maiz
4 hours ago
add a comment |
The hebrew root שׁוף means 'to bruise, to strike or to crush'.
The greek word τηρέω is able to translate as 'to watch carefully', but the indicative future like in Gen 3,15, it means 'to lie in ambush for someone'.
If we translate τηρήσει with 'to lie in ambush for someone', we will get a similar meaning like the hebrew text, because emphasises the hostility between the woman and the serpant.
I translated the hebrew word with the Gesenius und the greek word with the Gemoll.
answered 5 hours ago
FlyingDragonFlyingDragon
562
New contributor
FlyingDragon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
The hebrew root שׁוף means 'to bruise, to strike or to crush'.
The greek word τηρέω is able to translate as 'to watch carefully', but the indicative future like in Gen 3,15, it means 'to lie in ambush for someone'.
If we translate τηρήσει with 'to lie in ambush for someone', we will get a similar meaning like the hebrew text, because emphasises the hostility between the woman and the serpant.
I translated the hebrew word with the Gesenius und the greek word with the Gemoll.
answered 5 hours ago
FlyingDragonFlyingDragon
562
New contributor
FlyingDragon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 5 hours ago
FlyingDragonFlyingDragon
562
New contributor
FlyingDragon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 5 hours ago
FlyingDragonFlyingDragon
562
answered 5 hours ago
FlyingDragonFlyingDragon
562
562
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New contributor
FlyingDragon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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Thanks, this is exactly the type of answer I was hoping for. Since τηρέω can have the meaning "to lie in ambush", can the reader infer a connection between Gen 3:15 and Gen 4:7? I ask because the FSB has a note about sin "is crouching" (רבץ ravats); apparently רבץ is a cognate of the Akkadian word "rabitsu", referring to an ambushing guardian-demon. Maybe I should make a separate thread for this question.
– el_maiz
4 hours ago
add a comment |
Thanks, this is exactly the type of answer I was hoping for. Since τηρέω can have the meaning "to lie in ambush", can the reader infer a connection between Gen 3:15 and Gen 4:7? I ask because the FSB has a note about sin "is crouching" (רבץ ravats); apparently רבץ is a cognate of the Akkadian word "rabitsu", referring to an ambushing guardian-demon. Maybe I should make a separate thread for this question.
– el_maiz
4 hours ago
Thanks, this is exactly the type of answer I was hoping for. Since τηρέω can have the meaning "to lie in ambush", can the reader infer a connection between Gen 3:15 and Gen 4:7? I ask because the FSB has a note about sin "is crouching" (רבץ ravats); apparently רבץ is a cognate of the Akkadian word "rabitsu", referring to an ambushing guardian-demon. Maybe I should make a separate thread for this question.
– el_maiz
4 hours ago
Thanks, this is exactly the type of answer I was hoping for. Since τηρέω can have the meaning "to lie in ambush", can the reader infer a connection between Gen 3:15 and Gen 4:7? I ask because the FSB has a note about sin "is crouching" (רבץ ravats); apparently רבץ is a cognate of the Akkadian word "rabitsu", referring to an ambushing guardian-demon. Maybe I should make a separate thread for this question.
– el_maiz
4 hours ago
add a comment |
This lexicon of the LXX attributes it to a textual error in the LXX:
*Gn 3,15 τηρήσει he will lie in wait, he will watch corr.? τειρήσει he will bruise, he will break for MT ⋄ שׁוף he will bruise
Lust, J., Eynikel, E., & Hauspie, K. (2003). A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint : Revised Edition. Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft: Stuttgart.
The correction is not a easy word to find the meaning of.
answered 4 hours ago
Perry WebbPerry Webb
1,4291217
add a comment |
This lexicon of the LXX attributes it to a textual error in the LXX:
*Gn 3,15 τηρήσει he will lie in wait, he will watch corr.? τειρήσει he will bruise, he will break for MT ⋄ שׁוף he will bruise
Lust, J., Eynikel, E., & Hauspie, K. (2003). A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint : Revised Edition. Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft: Stuttgart.
The correction is not a easy word to find the meaning of.
answered 4 hours ago
Perry WebbPerry Webb
1,4291217
add a comment |
This lexicon of the LXX attributes it to a textual error in the LXX:
*Gn 3,15 τηρήσει he will lie in wait, he will watch corr.? τειρήσει he will bruise, he will break for MT ⋄ שׁוף he will bruise
Lust, J., Eynikel, E., & Hauspie, K. (2003). A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint : Revised Edition. Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft: Stuttgart.
The correction is not a easy word to find the meaning of.
answered 4 hours ago
Perry WebbPerry Webb
1,4291217
This lexicon of the LXX attributes it to a textual error in the LXX:
*Gn 3,15 τηρήσει he will lie in wait, he will watch corr.? τειρήσει he will bruise, he will break for MT ⋄ שׁוף he will bruise
Lust, J., Eynikel, E., & Hauspie, K. (2003). A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint : Revised Edition. Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft: Stuttgart.
The correction is not a easy word to find the meaning of.
answered 4 hours ago
Perry WebbPerry Webb
1,4291217
answered 4 hours ago
Perry WebbPerry Webb
1,4291217
answered 4 hours ago
Perry WebbPerry Webb
1,4291217
answered 4 hours ago
Perry WebbPerry Webb
1,4291217
1,4291217
add a comment |
add a comment |
el_maiz is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
el_maiz is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
el_maiz is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
el_maiz is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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