Casually inserting sexual orientationHow do I describe the effects of extreme psychological trauma on my...
Can I send almost 1MB transaction?
Skis versus snow shoes - when to choose which for travelling the backcountry?
What happened to QGIS 2.x
Misplaced tyre lever - Alternatives?
Inverse of the covariance matrix of a multivariate normal distribution
What am I? I am in theaters and computer programs
Canadian citizen, on US no-fly list. What can I do in order to be allowed on flights which go through US airspace?
Second-rate spelling
What is knowledge and vision?
Where is the line between being obedient and getting bullied by a boss
When should a commit not be version tagged?
All possible A of Ax=b with constraints on A
Is the helper verb 'werden' mandatory in both passive clauses separated by an 'oder', or only at the very the end?
Filling in Area Under Curve Causes Alignment Issues
What is better: yes / no radio, or simple checkbox?
Does Garmin Oregon 700 have Strava integration?
Why can't we make a perpetual motion machine by using a magnet to pull up a piece of metal, then letting it fall back down?
What should one use the left pedal for on an upright?
Practical reasons to have both a large police force and bounty hunting network?
Real life puzzle: Unknown alphabet or shorthand
A bug in Excel? Conditional formatting for marking duplicates also highlights unique value
Logistics of a hovering watercraft in a fantasy setting
Are there any other Chaos worshipping races?
Center single line(s) in align
Casually inserting sexual orientation
How do I describe the effects of extreme psychological trauma on my protagonist?How does my secondary protagonist turn into the antagonist?How can I indicate that a particular relationship between two male characters is purely brotherly (Philia) rather than romantic (Eros)?Effectively conveying an unreliable narratorDescribing new/strange foodsProtagonist who is morally compromised and antagonist who is “good”?Is my story “too diverse”?Too much death?MC doesn't know something that's obvious to the readerWriting a short story in the same universe as my novel
EDIT: Many people who are attempting to answer this question are severely misinterpreting the circumstances and setting of the book, so here is some information about Eris that I thought I had included but actually forgot to. This novel is post-apocalyptic. Eris killed her family as a child in an accident, as she possesses the ability to manipulate life force. She blocked out the memory and had convinced herself that she was the last person on Earth until a group of survivors, including Caspian and Marina, arrive and take her in. Eris has literally never known anyone. She cannot remember her family. I am trying to portray her attraction to both boys and girls in the context of her not having any past experience, and only just meeting people that she finds attractive.
My main character, Eris, in my post-apocalyptic novel is queer. Her first love interest, Caspian, is male, but further on in the story I'm going to introduce a secondary love interest, Marina. As far as the reader knows, Eris is straight, because the only person she has expressed romantic interest in is Caspian, a guy. So how can I believably and casually show that Eris swings both ways without the reader being confused by the time she, Marina, and Caspian are in a love triangle?
I want to make clear: this is not sexual. Eris is 16, Caspian is 17, and Marina is either 16 or 17. I will not portray explicit sexual content to show Eris' completely innocent and newly blooming romantic feelings.
creative-writing characters character-development
|
show 15 more comments
EDIT: Many people who are attempting to answer this question are severely misinterpreting the circumstances and setting of the book, so here is some information about Eris that I thought I had included but actually forgot to. This novel is post-apocalyptic. Eris killed her family as a child in an accident, as she possesses the ability to manipulate life force. She blocked out the memory and had convinced herself that she was the last person on Earth until a group of survivors, including Caspian and Marina, arrive and take her in. Eris has literally never known anyone. She cannot remember her family. I am trying to portray her attraction to both boys and girls in the context of her not having any past experience, and only just meeting people that she finds attractive.
My main character, Eris, in my post-apocalyptic novel is queer. Her first love interest, Caspian, is male, but further on in the story I'm going to introduce a secondary love interest, Marina. As far as the reader knows, Eris is straight, because the only person she has expressed romantic interest in is Caspian, a guy. So how can I believably and casually show that Eris swings both ways without the reader being confused by the time she, Marina, and Caspian are in a love triangle?
I want to make clear: this is not sexual. Eris is 16, Caspian is 17, and Marina is either 16 or 17. I will not portray explicit sexual content to show Eris' completely innocent and newly blooming romantic feelings.
creative-writing characters character-development
2
if you were yourself is such a situation I imagine you wouldn't immediately understand your feelings as your sexuality shifts. Writing the characters own confusion during the transition seems a straight forward solution
– BKlassen
19 hours ago
2
@BKlassen bisexuality isn't necessarily confusion.
– bruglesco
18 hours ago
1
@bruglesco no, and my comment refers to the transitory confusion between one sexuality and another not that a sexual preference is confused
– BKlassen
18 hours ago
2
@BKlassen The reader perhaps being confused is not the same as the character being confused. Sexuality is not binary! Bisexuality (and pansexuality) is not a fringe state of being. It's common and mainstream. The only confusion is from people who don't understand what bisexuality means!
– Cyn
18 hours ago
1
I assume Eris is your POV character. So this is becoming just your choice of how subtle or explicit you want to be in revealing her sexuality.
– Alexander
17 hours ago
|
show 15 more comments
EDIT: Many people who are attempting to answer this question are severely misinterpreting the circumstances and setting of the book, so here is some information about Eris that I thought I had included but actually forgot to. This novel is post-apocalyptic. Eris killed her family as a child in an accident, as she possesses the ability to manipulate life force. She blocked out the memory and had convinced herself that she was the last person on Earth until a group of survivors, including Caspian and Marina, arrive and take her in. Eris has literally never known anyone. She cannot remember her family. I am trying to portray her attraction to both boys and girls in the context of her not having any past experience, and only just meeting people that she finds attractive.
My main character, Eris, in my post-apocalyptic novel is queer. Her first love interest, Caspian, is male, but further on in the story I'm going to introduce a secondary love interest, Marina. As far as the reader knows, Eris is straight, because the only person she has expressed romantic interest in is Caspian, a guy. So how can I believably and casually show that Eris swings both ways without the reader being confused by the time she, Marina, and Caspian are in a love triangle?
I want to make clear: this is not sexual. Eris is 16, Caspian is 17, and Marina is either 16 or 17. I will not portray explicit sexual content to show Eris' completely innocent and newly blooming romantic feelings.
creative-writing characters character-development
EDIT: Many people who are attempting to answer this question are severely misinterpreting the circumstances and setting of the book, so here is some information about Eris that I thought I had included but actually forgot to. This novel is post-apocalyptic. Eris killed her family as a child in an accident, as she possesses the ability to manipulate life force. She blocked out the memory and had convinced herself that she was the last person on Earth until a group of survivors, including Caspian and Marina, arrive and take her in. Eris has literally never known anyone. She cannot remember her family. I am trying to portray her attraction to both boys and girls in the context of her not having any past experience, and only just meeting people that she finds attractive.
My main character, Eris, in my post-apocalyptic novel is queer. Her first love interest, Caspian, is male, but further on in the story I'm going to introduce a secondary love interest, Marina. As far as the reader knows, Eris is straight, because the only person she has expressed romantic interest in is Caspian, a guy. So how can I believably and casually show that Eris swings both ways without the reader being confused by the time she, Marina, and Caspian are in a love triangle?
I want to make clear: this is not sexual. Eris is 16, Caspian is 17, and Marina is either 16 or 17. I will not portray explicit sexual content to show Eris' completely innocent and newly blooming romantic feelings.
creative-writing characters character-development
creative-writing characters character-development
edited 1 hour ago
weakdna
asked 19 hours ago
weakdnaweakdna
2,95431854
2,95431854
2
if you were yourself is such a situation I imagine you wouldn't immediately understand your feelings as your sexuality shifts. Writing the characters own confusion during the transition seems a straight forward solution
– BKlassen
19 hours ago
2
@BKlassen bisexuality isn't necessarily confusion.
– bruglesco
18 hours ago
1
@bruglesco no, and my comment refers to the transitory confusion between one sexuality and another not that a sexual preference is confused
– BKlassen
18 hours ago
2
@BKlassen The reader perhaps being confused is not the same as the character being confused. Sexuality is not binary! Bisexuality (and pansexuality) is not a fringe state of being. It's common and mainstream. The only confusion is from people who don't understand what bisexuality means!
– Cyn
18 hours ago
1
I assume Eris is your POV character. So this is becoming just your choice of how subtle or explicit you want to be in revealing her sexuality.
– Alexander
17 hours ago
|
show 15 more comments
2
if you were yourself is such a situation I imagine you wouldn't immediately understand your feelings as your sexuality shifts. Writing the characters own confusion during the transition seems a straight forward solution
– BKlassen
19 hours ago
2
@BKlassen bisexuality isn't necessarily confusion.
– bruglesco
18 hours ago
1
@bruglesco no, and my comment refers to the transitory confusion between one sexuality and another not that a sexual preference is confused
– BKlassen
18 hours ago
2
@BKlassen The reader perhaps being confused is not the same as the character being confused. Sexuality is not binary! Bisexuality (and pansexuality) is not a fringe state of being. It's common and mainstream. The only confusion is from people who don't understand what bisexuality means!
– Cyn
18 hours ago
1
I assume Eris is your POV character. So this is becoming just your choice of how subtle or explicit you want to be in revealing her sexuality.
– Alexander
17 hours ago
2
2
if you were yourself is such a situation I imagine you wouldn't immediately understand your feelings as your sexuality shifts. Writing the characters own confusion during the transition seems a straight forward solution
– BKlassen
19 hours ago
if you were yourself is such a situation I imagine you wouldn't immediately understand your feelings as your sexuality shifts. Writing the characters own confusion during the transition seems a straight forward solution
– BKlassen
19 hours ago
2
2
@BKlassen bisexuality isn't necessarily confusion.
– bruglesco
18 hours ago
@BKlassen bisexuality isn't necessarily confusion.
– bruglesco
18 hours ago
1
1
@bruglesco no, and my comment refers to the transitory confusion between one sexuality and another not that a sexual preference is confused
– BKlassen
18 hours ago
@bruglesco no, and my comment refers to the transitory confusion between one sexuality and another not that a sexual preference is confused
– BKlassen
18 hours ago
2
2
@BKlassen The reader perhaps being confused is not the same as the character being confused. Sexuality is not binary! Bisexuality (and pansexuality) is not a fringe state of being. It's common and mainstream. The only confusion is from people who don't understand what bisexuality means!
– Cyn
18 hours ago
@BKlassen The reader perhaps being confused is not the same as the character being confused. Sexuality is not binary! Bisexuality (and pansexuality) is not a fringe state of being. It's common and mainstream. The only confusion is from people who don't understand what bisexuality means!
– Cyn
18 hours ago
1
1
I assume Eris is your POV character. So this is becoming just your choice of how subtle or explicit you want to be in revealing her sexuality.
– Alexander
17 hours ago
I assume Eris is your POV character. So this is becoming just your choice of how subtle or explicit you want to be in revealing her sexuality.
– Alexander
17 hours ago
|
show 15 more comments
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
I don't think you need to show anything special at all.
Lots of people have multiple love interests (or hookups) over the course of a novel. In some novels, it's entire the premise.
If a character's first relationship in the novel was to a tall blond German runner, you wouldn't think your readers would be confused when the next relationship is with a short bald Nigerian physics professor.
Let your reader be confused. Most readers will figure it out pretty quickly. The few that don't, well, they're the readers that wouldn't really get it after you explained it either.
"Let your reader be confused." And also let the character be confused. At 16, there is plenty of experimentation won't "stick".
– wetcircuit
5 hours ago
1
@wetcircuit OP's char. doesn't sound "confused" to me. Anyone who grows up in a community that acknowledges & values all sexual orientations will know theirs pretty early on. I see that in my own child & the children of people I know who raised their kids like that. Experimentation isn't the same as confusion but this character isn't experimenting either. What's new & maybe confusing for that character is the transition from teen feelings to full-blown adult romance/sex (which sounds like will not happen in that book but presumably would in her life later). Her orientation seems pretty set.
– Cyn
2 hours ago
I am bi. and an adult and I don't need a lecture in what words mean. I was merely adding to your answer, not "correcting" it. Kids make bad choices, not limited to sexuality, but MANY things, and yes, some of that is being confused by societies mixed-messages.
– wetcircuit
2 hours ago
@wetcircuit I'm also bi and felt your idea of "confusion" was a bit off-putting. I didn't grow up with negative messages from my family but definitely from the society and it took me a while (1st year of college) to figure things out (it's easier for women who don't have any feelings for men). I don't like the word "confused" because it goes along with people who only use it for someone who likes people of the same sex who hope it all goes away. Straight people aren't called confused. Can we just punt the word entirely?
– Cyn
2 hours ago
add a comment |
So how can I believably and casually show that Eris swings both ways ...
EDITED: After clarification from the OP, my first example won't work; the protagonists are too young (~16). However, the answer is roughly the same:
Casually! Have a conversation between Eris and Caspian, or Eris and a friend. And (in the modern world), I'd put aside the "confusion", teenagers in a modern secular city understand same-sex attraction just fine.
An Example: At 16/17 I assume the characters are juniors in high school, eleventh grade in the USA. This would be set in a private conversation, although walking together outdoors is private enough. I put this after a first kiss; for modern times that might be on a first date. If this is the most intimate they've each been with another, that would justify their willingness to be open.
Caspian asked, "Have you ever kissed before? I mean, before me."
"No. Until I met you, my biggest crush was on Elly in the eighth grade. I had dreams about kissing that girl."
Caspian laughed. "Oh, wow. Well, we have that in common. Did you dream about me?"
"Yes. A lot. Have you kissed anybody? Before me?"
"You are my first. I mean besides dreams."
Eris laughed. "Well, it's hard for me to compete with dreams."
"Not so hard," Caspian said. "It's like if you never had ice cream and you keep dreaming about having ice cream, and then you really have ice cream, it's a million times better than you could imagine. I'll choose the real you any day."
Again, the conversation is casual romantic talk. Caspian is only casually surprised Eris admits to her biggest crush being on a girl, and Eris doesn't hesitate to reveal that fact.
The final sentence actually foreshadows the later triangle. Caspian means it in a romantic sense, but Eris has already revealed her dreams of hooking up with Elly, so applied to that, Caspian's assertion that reality can far exceed her dream of a same-sex relationship will, in some sense, come to pass. She will fall in love with Marina.
This is a book for teenagers and Eris has been isolated her whole life, she hasn't had any romantic experience besides her crush on Caspian. Eris is sixteen.
– weakdna
18 hours ago
2
@weakdna "This is a book for teenagers" - I'm afraid we are misinterpreting the meaning of "casually" in your question :)
– Alexander
17 hours ago
I think you're misunderstanding. Eris has not met anyone before she meets Caspian. She has absolutely no romantic experience.
– weakdna
4 hours ago
@weakdna First, I find that implausible, and second, that makes your task impossible. A person that has never met anyone doesn't even contemplate sexuality. Many lifelong self-identified homosexual women say they felt their first love attractions to other girls in pre-school. I think you have set an impossible task, but since it is fiction you can revise your task to make it possible. Even children have "pretend we are married" phases before puberty, and puberty (~ 12, 13) triggers sexualized dreams, often some form of masturbation by 14. Your premise is too unrealistic.
– Amadeus
3 hours ago
@weakdna Even if you mean "met" romantically, my sister taught ages 6 to 12 for twenty years, and even then (15 years ago) she noticed girls separating into groups to whisper and giggle about boys two years before "puberty" set in, around the age of 10. Unless she was raised in a basement chained to a pipe, by the age of 16 Eris will have experienced both romantic attraction and sexual interest, even if she hasn't done anything about it (i.e. no romantic experience). Dreams are not "experience". If she is bi, then by 16 she will have had such feelings (and perhaps dreams) for both genders.
– Amadeus
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
Is Eris aware of her bisexuality herself? Or is she maybe confused at first as well? If the latter is the case, I think it's quite simple - you can write about her feelings on the subject, and people will understand.
So it all depends a bit on how confident Eris is about her sexuality, and how dramatic the whole thing should be. But I'm going to assume that she herself is not confused by this and that it's not supposed to be a dramatic reveal with a hurt male ex-lover coming to terms with her bisexuality or anything like that, since you say it's supposed to be "casual". You also say that she's grown up isolated, so maybe she never even questioned her bisexual feelings anyway, because the mainstream society we know and love/hate has not influenced her on what is considered appropriate.
In that case, there are two solutions in my mind: the one proposed by Cyn - just don't mention it, people will get it - and the one where someone asks her about it, and she gets the chance for a casual statement. For example a best friend who sees her kissing Marina could ask her "Oh, I thought you were interested in men! What happened?", and she could reply, depending on her character, something like "Uh, bisexuality, it's a thing, google it", or "Actually I don't really have preferences, and Marina is hot as hell". Or whatever. But I don't think such a situation seems forced, because between friends it is perfectly fine to ask about each other's sexual preferences, and to give an honest answer.
I think both are valid, but Cyn's version of not saying anything would be a bit too "aggressively casual" for me personally, I would prefer that someone mentions it but that everyone is cool with it. In our society, LGBT is still something that stands out from the crowd - not in a negative way in many cases, but still in a way that people want to acknowledge it. Just like you would have people remarking on brightly colored hair, it's something that people like to talk about and are curious about.
I don't have a problem with it coming up in conversation. Bi-erasure is a real thing and I think it's very important to talk about being bi and to do so casually, especially for those of us in relationships that cause others to perceive us as straight. But I also don't think it's required for the author to create a scene where it comes up in conversation. Because it does come up in the book. The question is about foreshadowing and I don't find that necessary, but I understand that some people do.
– Cyn
2 hours ago
I honestly don't know the term "bi-erasure" or what it means. But what I wrote wasn't meant as dismissive towards your suggestion at all. I understood your suggestion in the way that it does not have to be brought up at all, because people will get it - and I agree that it doesn't have to be foreshadowed, but having a conversation at some point about it is, I think, a good idea. So yeah, it seems to me that we agree!
– Spectrosaurus
2 hours ago
I wasn't accusing you of bi-erasure sorry if it came off that way. I just meant that talking about it is good. Bi-erasure is about the concept that society thinks everyone is either straight or gay and forces people into that box. People moving from a partner of one gender to another are said to be "switching sides" or "confused." Both the straight and the gay community do this to bisexuals. (I realize I'm talking about gender as a binary here and it's not, but it works better for these examples, as well as describing mainstream thought). (continued)
– Cyn
2 hours ago
People talk about about losing friends/family when they first date someone of the same sex. In my case, I lost a large portion of my community when I went from mostly dating women to falling in love with a man who I'm now married to. My sexual orientation did not change! Will never change! But both the straight & gay community treat me as straight and most do not understand bisexuality. In fact, it's usually treated as "oh so that means you have to be with a man and a woman at the same time?" Poly is fine too but it has nothing to do with sexual orientation and is not part of the def of bi.
– Cyn
2 hours ago
Okay I got you! I didn't think you were accusing me of it, I just hadn't heard that term before. I think it's a difficult concept to grasp for many people, so yeah it's definitely good to talk about it. By the way, you might enjoy the song "Getting Bi" from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, it's a funny song about bisexuality and about how it's not the same as being gay.
– Spectrosaurus
2 hours ago
add a comment |
If you truly want to be casual, don't mention it at all. Let the reader work it out for themselves.
But, be aware of erasing bi and trans identities, you aren't doing them any favors by "normalizing" to gay
You are setting up a love triangle which may or may not have a conclusion with one being picked over the other. Reader (and author) expectations are a Chekov's gun – no story stands independent of reality. If one person in the triangle is seen as the inevitable conclusion of the character's self-discovery, or coded as the healthier choice by reasons of plot/character, it adds all sorts of implications on the final outcome.
When you shift a character's sexual orientation, there are socially-coded "rules" that popular media seems to reenforce. You are "swimming against a current" of reader expectations, and the normal might depend on the culture.
Characters are rewarded for moving from "straight" to "gay".
Characters are punished for moving from "gay" to "straight".
One is seen as "true", the other is seen as "false". This is of course not how fluid sexuality works, and it completely ignores the experiences of bi and trans people who's normal sexual identities are erased under this "rule".
The rule reflects a modern convention that people will be happier once they "admit" they are gay and stop "pretending" to be straight to conform to society. And of course it use to be the Freudian opposite, gay people were unhappy until they conformed to straight. Both are a reflection of "Heteronormativity" (I won't make up a word like "queernormativity" but that is exactly the dynamic even though it's an oxymoron, it is a reaction to heteronormativity).
To preserve this idea a modern corollary to the rule is also enforced: people who were once "gay" and now have a "straight" relationship are in denial of their "true" selves, they are psychologically false or being deceptive for personal gain.
Again, this isn't how real fluid sexuality works, but this bias is very strongly re-enforced by a society that is uncomfortable with people they can't put in a permanent box, and stick a pin in so they won't squirm out. Be aware of the biases inherent in your generation and your immediate social group.
You are writing bi and trans characters, but are you representing them in a way that is true to their nature, or are you "normalizing" them to confirm social and sexual biases? The issue is that Bi and trans people are sub-minority even as they are lumped under LGBT, so they are erased twice. You may not have room to represent other bi or trans people in your story who could show there is no message behind the final relationship pairing.
This doesn't appear to answer the question?
– motosubatsu
3 hours ago
The OP is setting up a love triangle which may or may not have a conclusion with one being picked over the other. Reader and author expectations are a Chekov's gun – no story stands independent of reality. If one person in the triangle is seen as an inevitable conclusion of the character's self-discovery, or coded as the healthier choice by reasons of plot/character that adds all sorts of implications on the final outcome.
– wetcircuit
3 hours ago
You seem to have gone from the OP's "How can I casually insert sexual orientation?" to, well I have to be honest I'm not quite sure where, some kind of rant suggesting the OP was looking to "erase bi and trans"? Your edit makes (slightly) more sense but I'm sorry I still don't see how this answers the question at hand.
– motosubatsu
3 hours ago
LOL, I am warning that there may NOT be a "casual" ie: consequence and implication-free way to do this. Awareness of what might go wrong IS ANSWERING THE QUESTION.
– wetcircuit
3 hours ago
1
No harm, no foul.
– motosubatsu
2 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "166"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fwriting.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f43003%2fcasually-inserting-sexual-orientation%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
I don't think you need to show anything special at all.
Lots of people have multiple love interests (or hookups) over the course of a novel. In some novels, it's entire the premise.
If a character's first relationship in the novel was to a tall blond German runner, you wouldn't think your readers would be confused when the next relationship is with a short bald Nigerian physics professor.
Let your reader be confused. Most readers will figure it out pretty quickly. The few that don't, well, they're the readers that wouldn't really get it after you explained it either.
"Let your reader be confused." And also let the character be confused. At 16, there is plenty of experimentation won't "stick".
– wetcircuit
5 hours ago
1
@wetcircuit OP's char. doesn't sound "confused" to me. Anyone who grows up in a community that acknowledges & values all sexual orientations will know theirs pretty early on. I see that in my own child & the children of people I know who raised their kids like that. Experimentation isn't the same as confusion but this character isn't experimenting either. What's new & maybe confusing for that character is the transition from teen feelings to full-blown adult romance/sex (which sounds like will not happen in that book but presumably would in her life later). Her orientation seems pretty set.
– Cyn
2 hours ago
I am bi. and an adult and I don't need a lecture in what words mean. I was merely adding to your answer, not "correcting" it. Kids make bad choices, not limited to sexuality, but MANY things, and yes, some of that is being confused by societies mixed-messages.
– wetcircuit
2 hours ago
@wetcircuit I'm also bi and felt your idea of "confusion" was a bit off-putting. I didn't grow up with negative messages from my family but definitely from the society and it took me a while (1st year of college) to figure things out (it's easier for women who don't have any feelings for men). I don't like the word "confused" because it goes along with people who only use it for someone who likes people of the same sex who hope it all goes away. Straight people aren't called confused. Can we just punt the word entirely?
– Cyn
2 hours ago
add a comment |
I don't think you need to show anything special at all.
Lots of people have multiple love interests (or hookups) over the course of a novel. In some novels, it's entire the premise.
If a character's first relationship in the novel was to a tall blond German runner, you wouldn't think your readers would be confused when the next relationship is with a short bald Nigerian physics professor.
Let your reader be confused. Most readers will figure it out pretty quickly. The few that don't, well, they're the readers that wouldn't really get it after you explained it either.
"Let your reader be confused." And also let the character be confused. At 16, there is plenty of experimentation won't "stick".
– wetcircuit
5 hours ago
1
@wetcircuit OP's char. doesn't sound "confused" to me. Anyone who grows up in a community that acknowledges & values all sexual orientations will know theirs pretty early on. I see that in my own child & the children of people I know who raised their kids like that. Experimentation isn't the same as confusion but this character isn't experimenting either. What's new & maybe confusing for that character is the transition from teen feelings to full-blown adult romance/sex (which sounds like will not happen in that book but presumably would in her life later). Her orientation seems pretty set.
– Cyn
2 hours ago
I am bi. and an adult and I don't need a lecture in what words mean. I was merely adding to your answer, not "correcting" it. Kids make bad choices, not limited to sexuality, but MANY things, and yes, some of that is being confused by societies mixed-messages.
– wetcircuit
2 hours ago
@wetcircuit I'm also bi and felt your idea of "confusion" was a bit off-putting. I didn't grow up with negative messages from my family but definitely from the society and it took me a while (1st year of college) to figure things out (it's easier for women who don't have any feelings for men). I don't like the word "confused" because it goes along with people who only use it for someone who likes people of the same sex who hope it all goes away. Straight people aren't called confused. Can we just punt the word entirely?
– Cyn
2 hours ago
add a comment |
I don't think you need to show anything special at all.
Lots of people have multiple love interests (or hookups) over the course of a novel. In some novels, it's entire the premise.
If a character's first relationship in the novel was to a tall blond German runner, you wouldn't think your readers would be confused when the next relationship is with a short bald Nigerian physics professor.
Let your reader be confused. Most readers will figure it out pretty quickly. The few that don't, well, they're the readers that wouldn't really get it after you explained it either.
I don't think you need to show anything special at all.
Lots of people have multiple love interests (or hookups) over the course of a novel. In some novels, it's entire the premise.
If a character's first relationship in the novel was to a tall blond German runner, you wouldn't think your readers would be confused when the next relationship is with a short bald Nigerian physics professor.
Let your reader be confused. Most readers will figure it out pretty quickly. The few that don't, well, they're the readers that wouldn't really get it after you explained it either.
edited 1 hour ago
weakdna
2,95431854
2,95431854
answered 18 hours ago
CynCyn
13k12764
13k12764
"Let your reader be confused." And also let the character be confused. At 16, there is plenty of experimentation won't "stick".
– wetcircuit
5 hours ago
1
@wetcircuit OP's char. doesn't sound "confused" to me. Anyone who grows up in a community that acknowledges & values all sexual orientations will know theirs pretty early on. I see that in my own child & the children of people I know who raised their kids like that. Experimentation isn't the same as confusion but this character isn't experimenting either. What's new & maybe confusing for that character is the transition from teen feelings to full-blown adult romance/sex (which sounds like will not happen in that book but presumably would in her life later). Her orientation seems pretty set.
– Cyn
2 hours ago
I am bi. and an adult and I don't need a lecture in what words mean. I was merely adding to your answer, not "correcting" it. Kids make bad choices, not limited to sexuality, but MANY things, and yes, some of that is being confused by societies mixed-messages.
– wetcircuit
2 hours ago
@wetcircuit I'm also bi and felt your idea of "confusion" was a bit off-putting. I didn't grow up with negative messages from my family but definitely from the society and it took me a while (1st year of college) to figure things out (it's easier for women who don't have any feelings for men). I don't like the word "confused" because it goes along with people who only use it for someone who likes people of the same sex who hope it all goes away. Straight people aren't called confused. Can we just punt the word entirely?
– Cyn
2 hours ago
add a comment |
"Let your reader be confused." And also let the character be confused. At 16, there is plenty of experimentation won't "stick".
– wetcircuit
5 hours ago
1
@wetcircuit OP's char. doesn't sound "confused" to me. Anyone who grows up in a community that acknowledges & values all sexual orientations will know theirs pretty early on. I see that in my own child & the children of people I know who raised their kids like that. Experimentation isn't the same as confusion but this character isn't experimenting either. What's new & maybe confusing for that character is the transition from teen feelings to full-blown adult romance/sex (which sounds like will not happen in that book but presumably would in her life later). Her orientation seems pretty set.
– Cyn
2 hours ago
I am bi. and an adult and I don't need a lecture in what words mean. I was merely adding to your answer, not "correcting" it. Kids make bad choices, not limited to sexuality, but MANY things, and yes, some of that is being confused by societies mixed-messages.
– wetcircuit
2 hours ago
@wetcircuit I'm also bi and felt your idea of "confusion" was a bit off-putting. I didn't grow up with negative messages from my family but definitely from the society and it took me a while (1st year of college) to figure things out (it's easier for women who don't have any feelings for men). I don't like the word "confused" because it goes along with people who only use it for someone who likes people of the same sex who hope it all goes away. Straight people aren't called confused. Can we just punt the word entirely?
– Cyn
2 hours ago
"Let your reader be confused." And also let the character be confused. At 16, there is plenty of experimentation won't "stick".
– wetcircuit
5 hours ago
"Let your reader be confused." And also let the character be confused. At 16, there is plenty of experimentation won't "stick".
– wetcircuit
5 hours ago
1
1
@wetcircuit OP's char. doesn't sound "confused" to me. Anyone who grows up in a community that acknowledges & values all sexual orientations will know theirs pretty early on. I see that in my own child & the children of people I know who raised their kids like that. Experimentation isn't the same as confusion but this character isn't experimenting either. What's new & maybe confusing for that character is the transition from teen feelings to full-blown adult romance/sex (which sounds like will not happen in that book but presumably would in her life later). Her orientation seems pretty set.
– Cyn
2 hours ago
@wetcircuit OP's char. doesn't sound "confused" to me. Anyone who grows up in a community that acknowledges & values all sexual orientations will know theirs pretty early on. I see that in my own child & the children of people I know who raised their kids like that. Experimentation isn't the same as confusion but this character isn't experimenting either. What's new & maybe confusing for that character is the transition from teen feelings to full-blown adult romance/sex (which sounds like will not happen in that book but presumably would in her life later). Her orientation seems pretty set.
– Cyn
2 hours ago
I am bi. and an adult and I don't need a lecture in what words mean. I was merely adding to your answer, not "correcting" it. Kids make bad choices, not limited to sexuality, but MANY things, and yes, some of that is being confused by societies mixed-messages.
– wetcircuit
2 hours ago
I am bi. and an adult and I don't need a lecture in what words mean. I was merely adding to your answer, not "correcting" it. Kids make bad choices, not limited to sexuality, but MANY things, and yes, some of that is being confused by societies mixed-messages.
– wetcircuit
2 hours ago
@wetcircuit I'm also bi and felt your idea of "confusion" was a bit off-putting. I didn't grow up with negative messages from my family but definitely from the society and it took me a while (1st year of college) to figure things out (it's easier for women who don't have any feelings for men). I don't like the word "confused" because it goes along with people who only use it for someone who likes people of the same sex who hope it all goes away. Straight people aren't called confused. Can we just punt the word entirely?
– Cyn
2 hours ago
@wetcircuit I'm also bi and felt your idea of "confusion" was a bit off-putting. I didn't grow up with negative messages from my family but definitely from the society and it took me a while (1st year of college) to figure things out (it's easier for women who don't have any feelings for men). I don't like the word "confused" because it goes along with people who only use it for someone who likes people of the same sex who hope it all goes away. Straight people aren't called confused. Can we just punt the word entirely?
– Cyn
2 hours ago
add a comment |
So how can I believably and casually show that Eris swings both ways ...
EDITED: After clarification from the OP, my first example won't work; the protagonists are too young (~16). However, the answer is roughly the same:
Casually! Have a conversation between Eris and Caspian, or Eris and a friend. And (in the modern world), I'd put aside the "confusion", teenagers in a modern secular city understand same-sex attraction just fine.
An Example: At 16/17 I assume the characters are juniors in high school, eleventh grade in the USA. This would be set in a private conversation, although walking together outdoors is private enough. I put this after a first kiss; for modern times that might be on a first date. If this is the most intimate they've each been with another, that would justify their willingness to be open.
Caspian asked, "Have you ever kissed before? I mean, before me."
"No. Until I met you, my biggest crush was on Elly in the eighth grade. I had dreams about kissing that girl."
Caspian laughed. "Oh, wow. Well, we have that in common. Did you dream about me?"
"Yes. A lot. Have you kissed anybody? Before me?"
"You are my first. I mean besides dreams."
Eris laughed. "Well, it's hard for me to compete with dreams."
"Not so hard," Caspian said. "It's like if you never had ice cream and you keep dreaming about having ice cream, and then you really have ice cream, it's a million times better than you could imagine. I'll choose the real you any day."
Again, the conversation is casual romantic talk. Caspian is only casually surprised Eris admits to her biggest crush being on a girl, and Eris doesn't hesitate to reveal that fact.
The final sentence actually foreshadows the later triangle. Caspian means it in a romantic sense, but Eris has already revealed her dreams of hooking up with Elly, so applied to that, Caspian's assertion that reality can far exceed her dream of a same-sex relationship will, in some sense, come to pass. She will fall in love with Marina.
This is a book for teenagers and Eris has been isolated her whole life, she hasn't had any romantic experience besides her crush on Caspian. Eris is sixteen.
– weakdna
18 hours ago
2
@weakdna "This is a book for teenagers" - I'm afraid we are misinterpreting the meaning of "casually" in your question :)
– Alexander
17 hours ago
I think you're misunderstanding. Eris has not met anyone before she meets Caspian. She has absolutely no romantic experience.
– weakdna
4 hours ago
@weakdna First, I find that implausible, and second, that makes your task impossible. A person that has never met anyone doesn't even contemplate sexuality. Many lifelong self-identified homosexual women say they felt their first love attractions to other girls in pre-school. I think you have set an impossible task, but since it is fiction you can revise your task to make it possible. Even children have "pretend we are married" phases before puberty, and puberty (~ 12, 13) triggers sexualized dreams, often some form of masturbation by 14. Your premise is too unrealistic.
– Amadeus
3 hours ago
@weakdna Even if you mean "met" romantically, my sister taught ages 6 to 12 for twenty years, and even then (15 years ago) she noticed girls separating into groups to whisper and giggle about boys two years before "puberty" set in, around the age of 10. Unless she was raised in a basement chained to a pipe, by the age of 16 Eris will have experienced both romantic attraction and sexual interest, even if she hasn't done anything about it (i.e. no romantic experience). Dreams are not "experience". If she is bi, then by 16 she will have had such feelings (and perhaps dreams) for both genders.
– Amadeus
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
So how can I believably and casually show that Eris swings both ways ...
EDITED: After clarification from the OP, my first example won't work; the protagonists are too young (~16). However, the answer is roughly the same:
Casually! Have a conversation between Eris and Caspian, or Eris and a friend. And (in the modern world), I'd put aside the "confusion", teenagers in a modern secular city understand same-sex attraction just fine.
An Example: At 16/17 I assume the characters are juniors in high school, eleventh grade in the USA. This would be set in a private conversation, although walking together outdoors is private enough. I put this after a first kiss; for modern times that might be on a first date. If this is the most intimate they've each been with another, that would justify their willingness to be open.
Caspian asked, "Have you ever kissed before? I mean, before me."
"No. Until I met you, my biggest crush was on Elly in the eighth grade. I had dreams about kissing that girl."
Caspian laughed. "Oh, wow. Well, we have that in common. Did you dream about me?"
"Yes. A lot. Have you kissed anybody? Before me?"
"You are my first. I mean besides dreams."
Eris laughed. "Well, it's hard for me to compete with dreams."
"Not so hard," Caspian said. "It's like if you never had ice cream and you keep dreaming about having ice cream, and then you really have ice cream, it's a million times better than you could imagine. I'll choose the real you any day."
Again, the conversation is casual romantic talk. Caspian is only casually surprised Eris admits to her biggest crush being on a girl, and Eris doesn't hesitate to reveal that fact.
The final sentence actually foreshadows the later triangle. Caspian means it in a romantic sense, but Eris has already revealed her dreams of hooking up with Elly, so applied to that, Caspian's assertion that reality can far exceed her dream of a same-sex relationship will, in some sense, come to pass. She will fall in love with Marina.
This is a book for teenagers and Eris has been isolated her whole life, she hasn't had any romantic experience besides her crush on Caspian. Eris is sixteen.
– weakdna
18 hours ago
2
@weakdna "This is a book for teenagers" - I'm afraid we are misinterpreting the meaning of "casually" in your question :)
– Alexander
17 hours ago
I think you're misunderstanding. Eris has not met anyone before she meets Caspian. She has absolutely no romantic experience.
– weakdna
4 hours ago
@weakdna First, I find that implausible, and second, that makes your task impossible. A person that has never met anyone doesn't even contemplate sexuality. Many lifelong self-identified homosexual women say they felt their first love attractions to other girls in pre-school. I think you have set an impossible task, but since it is fiction you can revise your task to make it possible. Even children have "pretend we are married" phases before puberty, and puberty (~ 12, 13) triggers sexualized dreams, often some form of masturbation by 14. Your premise is too unrealistic.
– Amadeus
3 hours ago
@weakdna Even if you mean "met" romantically, my sister taught ages 6 to 12 for twenty years, and even then (15 years ago) she noticed girls separating into groups to whisper and giggle about boys two years before "puberty" set in, around the age of 10. Unless she was raised in a basement chained to a pipe, by the age of 16 Eris will have experienced both romantic attraction and sexual interest, even if she hasn't done anything about it (i.e. no romantic experience). Dreams are not "experience". If she is bi, then by 16 she will have had such feelings (and perhaps dreams) for both genders.
– Amadeus
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
So how can I believably and casually show that Eris swings both ways ...
EDITED: After clarification from the OP, my first example won't work; the protagonists are too young (~16). However, the answer is roughly the same:
Casually! Have a conversation between Eris and Caspian, or Eris and a friend. And (in the modern world), I'd put aside the "confusion", teenagers in a modern secular city understand same-sex attraction just fine.
An Example: At 16/17 I assume the characters are juniors in high school, eleventh grade in the USA. This would be set in a private conversation, although walking together outdoors is private enough. I put this after a first kiss; for modern times that might be on a first date. If this is the most intimate they've each been with another, that would justify their willingness to be open.
Caspian asked, "Have you ever kissed before? I mean, before me."
"No. Until I met you, my biggest crush was on Elly in the eighth grade. I had dreams about kissing that girl."
Caspian laughed. "Oh, wow. Well, we have that in common. Did you dream about me?"
"Yes. A lot. Have you kissed anybody? Before me?"
"You are my first. I mean besides dreams."
Eris laughed. "Well, it's hard for me to compete with dreams."
"Not so hard," Caspian said. "It's like if you never had ice cream and you keep dreaming about having ice cream, and then you really have ice cream, it's a million times better than you could imagine. I'll choose the real you any day."
Again, the conversation is casual romantic talk. Caspian is only casually surprised Eris admits to her biggest crush being on a girl, and Eris doesn't hesitate to reveal that fact.
The final sentence actually foreshadows the later triangle. Caspian means it in a romantic sense, but Eris has already revealed her dreams of hooking up with Elly, so applied to that, Caspian's assertion that reality can far exceed her dream of a same-sex relationship will, in some sense, come to pass. She will fall in love with Marina.
So how can I believably and casually show that Eris swings both ways ...
EDITED: After clarification from the OP, my first example won't work; the protagonists are too young (~16). However, the answer is roughly the same:
Casually! Have a conversation between Eris and Caspian, or Eris and a friend. And (in the modern world), I'd put aside the "confusion", teenagers in a modern secular city understand same-sex attraction just fine.
An Example: At 16/17 I assume the characters are juniors in high school, eleventh grade in the USA. This would be set in a private conversation, although walking together outdoors is private enough. I put this after a first kiss; for modern times that might be on a first date. If this is the most intimate they've each been with another, that would justify their willingness to be open.
Caspian asked, "Have you ever kissed before? I mean, before me."
"No. Until I met you, my biggest crush was on Elly in the eighth grade. I had dreams about kissing that girl."
Caspian laughed. "Oh, wow. Well, we have that in common. Did you dream about me?"
"Yes. A lot. Have you kissed anybody? Before me?"
"You are my first. I mean besides dreams."
Eris laughed. "Well, it's hard for me to compete with dreams."
"Not so hard," Caspian said. "It's like if you never had ice cream and you keep dreaming about having ice cream, and then you really have ice cream, it's a million times better than you could imagine. I'll choose the real you any day."
Again, the conversation is casual romantic talk. Caspian is only casually surprised Eris admits to her biggest crush being on a girl, and Eris doesn't hesitate to reveal that fact.
The final sentence actually foreshadows the later triangle. Caspian means it in a romantic sense, but Eris has already revealed her dreams of hooking up with Elly, so applied to that, Caspian's assertion that reality can far exceed her dream of a same-sex relationship will, in some sense, come to pass. She will fall in love with Marina.
edited 5 hours ago
answered 18 hours ago
AmadeusAmadeus
53.1k468173
53.1k468173
This is a book for teenagers and Eris has been isolated her whole life, she hasn't had any romantic experience besides her crush on Caspian. Eris is sixteen.
– weakdna
18 hours ago
2
@weakdna "This is a book for teenagers" - I'm afraid we are misinterpreting the meaning of "casually" in your question :)
– Alexander
17 hours ago
I think you're misunderstanding. Eris has not met anyone before she meets Caspian. She has absolutely no romantic experience.
– weakdna
4 hours ago
@weakdna First, I find that implausible, and second, that makes your task impossible. A person that has never met anyone doesn't even contemplate sexuality. Many lifelong self-identified homosexual women say they felt their first love attractions to other girls in pre-school. I think you have set an impossible task, but since it is fiction you can revise your task to make it possible. Even children have "pretend we are married" phases before puberty, and puberty (~ 12, 13) triggers sexualized dreams, often some form of masturbation by 14. Your premise is too unrealistic.
– Amadeus
3 hours ago
@weakdna Even if you mean "met" romantically, my sister taught ages 6 to 12 for twenty years, and even then (15 years ago) she noticed girls separating into groups to whisper and giggle about boys two years before "puberty" set in, around the age of 10. Unless she was raised in a basement chained to a pipe, by the age of 16 Eris will have experienced both romantic attraction and sexual interest, even if she hasn't done anything about it (i.e. no romantic experience). Dreams are not "experience". If she is bi, then by 16 she will have had such feelings (and perhaps dreams) for both genders.
– Amadeus
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
This is a book for teenagers and Eris has been isolated her whole life, she hasn't had any romantic experience besides her crush on Caspian. Eris is sixteen.
– weakdna
18 hours ago
2
@weakdna "This is a book for teenagers" - I'm afraid we are misinterpreting the meaning of "casually" in your question :)
– Alexander
17 hours ago
I think you're misunderstanding. Eris has not met anyone before she meets Caspian. She has absolutely no romantic experience.
– weakdna
4 hours ago
@weakdna First, I find that implausible, and second, that makes your task impossible. A person that has never met anyone doesn't even contemplate sexuality. Many lifelong self-identified homosexual women say they felt their first love attractions to other girls in pre-school. I think you have set an impossible task, but since it is fiction you can revise your task to make it possible. Even children have "pretend we are married" phases before puberty, and puberty (~ 12, 13) triggers sexualized dreams, often some form of masturbation by 14. Your premise is too unrealistic.
– Amadeus
3 hours ago
@weakdna Even if you mean "met" romantically, my sister taught ages 6 to 12 for twenty years, and even then (15 years ago) she noticed girls separating into groups to whisper and giggle about boys two years before "puberty" set in, around the age of 10. Unless she was raised in a basement chained to a pipe, by the age of 16 Eris will have experienced both romantic attraction and sexual interest, even if she hasn't done anything about it (i.e. no romantic experience). Dreams are not "experience". If she is bi, then by 16 she will have had such feelings (and perhaps dreams) for both genders.
– Amadeus
2 hours ago
This is a book for teenagers and Eris has been isolated her whole life, she hasn't had any romantic experience besides her crush on Caspian. Eris is sixteen.
– weakdna
18 hours ago
This is a book for teenagers and Eris has been isolated her whole life, she hasn't had any romantic experience besides her crush on Caspian. Eris is sixteen.
– weakdna
18 hours ago
2
2
@weakdna "This is a book for teenagers" - I'm afraid we are misinterpreting the meaning of "casually" in your question :)
– Alexander
17 hours ago
@weakdna "This is a book for teenagers" - I'm afraid we are misinterpreting the meaning of "casually" in your question :)
– Alexander
17 hours ago
I think you're misunderstanding. Eris has not met anyone before she meets Caspian. She has absolutely no romantic experience.
– weakdna
4 hours ago
I think you're misunderstanding. Eris has not met anyone before she meets Caspian. She has absolutely no romantic experience.
– weakdna
4 hours ago
@weakdna First, I find that implausible, and second, that makes your task impossible. A person that has never met anyone doesn't even contemplate sexuality. Many lifelong self-identified homosexual women say they felt their first love attractions to other girls in pre-school. I think you have set an impossible task, but since it is fiction you can revise your task to make it possible. Even children have "pretend we are married" phases before puberty, and puberty (~ 12, 13) triggers sexualized dreams, often some form of masturbation by 14. Your premise is too unrealistic.
– Amadeus
3 hours ago
@weakdna First, I find that implausible, and second, that makes your task impossible. A person that has never met anyone doesn't even contemplate sexuality. Many lifelong self-identified homosexual women say they felt their first love attractions to other girls in pre-school. I think you have set an impossible task, but since it is fiction you can revise your task to make it possible. Even children have "pretend we are married" phases before puberty, and puberty (~ 12, 13) triggers sexualized dreams, often some form of masturbation by 14. Your premise is too unrealistic.
– Amadeus
3 hours ago
@weakdna Even if you mean "met" romantically, my sister taught ages 6 to 12 for twenty years, and even then (15 years ago) she noticed girls separating into groups to whisper and giggle about boys two years before "puberty" set in, around the age of 10. Unless she was raised in a basement chained to a pipe, by the age of 16 Eris will have experienced both romantic attraction and sexual interest, even if she hasn't done anything about it (i.e. no romantic experience). Dreams are not "experience". If she is bi, then by 16 she will have had such feelings (and perhaps dreams) for both genders.
– Amadeus
2 hours ago
@weakdna Even if you mean "met" romantically, my sister taught ages 6 to 12 for twenty years, and even then (15 years ago) she noticed girls separating into groups to whisper and giggle about boys two years before "puberty" set in, around the age of 10. Unless she was raised in a basement chained to a pipe, by the age of 16 Eris will have experienced both romantic attraction and sexual interest, even if she hasn't done anything about it (i.e. no romantic experience). Dreams are not "experience". If she is bi, then by 16 she will have had such feelings (and perhaps dreams) for both genders.
– Amadeus
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
Is Eris aware of her bisexuality herself? Or is she maybe confused at first as well? If the latter is the case, I think it's quite simple - you can write about her feelings on the subject, and people will understand.
So it all depends a bit on how confident Eris is about her sexuality, and how dramatic the whole thing should be. But I'm going to assume that she herself is not confused by this and that it's not supposed to be a dramatic reveal with a hurt male ex-lover coming to terms with her bisexuality or anything like that, since you say it's supposed to be "casual". You also say that she's grown up isolated, so maybe she never even questioned her bisexual feelings anyway, because the mainstream society we know and love/hate has not influenced her on what is considered appropriate.
In that case, there are two solutions in my mind: the one proposed by Cyn - just don't mention it, people will get it - and the one where someone asks her about it, and she gets the chance for a casual statement. For example a best friend who sees her kissing Marina could ask her "Oh, I thought you were interested in men! What happened?", and she could reply, depending on her character, something like "Uh, bisexuality, it's a thing, google it", or "Actually I don't really have preferences, and Marina is hot as hell". Or whatever. But I don't think such a situation seems forced, because between friends it is perfectly fine to ask about each other's sexual preferences, and to give an honest answer.
I think both are valid, but Cyn's version of not saying anything would be a bit too "aggressively casual" for me personally, I would prefer that someone mentions it but that everyone is cool with it. In our society, LGBT is still something that stands out from the crowd - not in a negative way in many cases, but still in a way that people want to acknowledge it. Just like you would have people remarking on brightly colored hair, it's something that people like to talk about and are curious about.
I don't have a problem with it coming up in conversation. Bi-erasure is a real thing and I think it's very important to talk about being bi and to do so casually, especially for those of us in relationships that cause others to perceive us as straight. But I also don't think it's required for the author to create a scene where it comes up in conversation. Because it does come up in the book. The question is about foreshadowing and I don't find that necessary, but I understand that some people do.
– Cyn
2 hours ago
I honestly don't know the term "bi-erasure" or what it means. But what I wrote wasn't meant as dismissive towards your suggestion at all. I understood your suggestion in the way that it does not have to be brought up at all, because people will get it - and I agree that it doesn't have to be foreshadowed, but having a conversation at some point about it is, I think, a good idea. So yeah, it seems to me that we agree!
– Spectrosaurus
2 hours ago
I wasn't accusing you of bi-erasure sorry if it came off that way. I just meant that talking about it is good. Bi-erasure is about the concept that society thinks everyone is either straight or gay and forces people into that box. People moving from a partner of one gender to another are said to be "switching sides" or "confused." Both the straight and the gay community do this to bisexuals. (I realize I'm talking about gender as a binary here and it's not, but it works better for these examples, as well as describing mainstream thought). (continued)
– Cyn
2 hours ago
People talk about about losing friends/family when they first date someone of the same sex. In my case, I lost a large portion of my community when I went from mostly dating women to falling in love with a man who I'm now married to. My sexual orientation did not change! Will never change! But both the straight & gay community treat me as straight and most do not understand bisexuality. In fact, it's usually treated as "oh so that means you have to be with a man and a woman at the same time?" Poly is fine too but it has nothing to do with sexual orientation and is not part of the def of bi.
– Cyn
2 hours ago
Okay I got you! I didn't think you were accusing me of it, I just hadn't heard that term before. I think it's a difficult concept to grasp for many people, so yeah it's definitely good to talk about it. By the way, you might enjoy the song "Getting Bi" from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, it's a funny song about bisexuality and about how it's not the same as being gay.
– Spectrosaurus
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Is Eris aware of her bisexuality herself? Or is she maybe confused at first as well? If the latter is the case, I think it's quite simple - you can write about her feelings on the subject, and people will understand.
So it all depends a bit on how confident Eris is about her sexuality, and how dramatic the whole thing should be. But I'm going to assume that she herself is not confused by this and that it's not supposed to be a dramatic reveal with a hurt male ex-lover coming to terms with her bisexuality or anything like that, since you say it's supposed to be "casual". You also say that she's grown up isolated, so maybe she never even questioned her bisexual feelings anyway, because the mainstream society we know and love/hate has not influenced her on what is considered appropriate.
In that case, there are two solutions in my mind: the one proposed by Cyn - just don't mention it, people will get it - and the one where someone asks her about it, and she gets the chance for a casual statement. For example a best friend who sees her kissing Marina could ask her "Oh, I thought you were interested in men! What happened?", and she could reply, depending on her character, something like "Uh, bisexuality, it's a thing, google it", or "Actually I don't really have preferences, and Marina is hot as hell". Or whatever. But I don't think such a situation seems forced, because between friends it is perfectly fine to ask about each other's sexual preferences, and to give an honest answer.
I think both are valid, but Cyn's version of not saying anything would be a bit too "aggressively casual" for me personally, I would prefer that someone mentions it but that everyone is cool with it. In our society, LGBT is still something that stands out from the crowd - not in a negative way in many cases, but still in a way that people want to acknowledge it. Just like you would have people remarking on brightly colored hair, it's something that people like to talk about and are curious about.
I don't have a problem with it coming up in conversation. Bi-erasure is a real thing and I think it's very important to talk about being bi and to do so casually, especially for those of us in relationships that cause others to perceive us as straight. But I also don't think it's required for the author to create a scene where it comes up in conversation. Because it does come up in the book. The question is about foreshadowing and I don't find that necessary, but I understand that some people do.
– Cyn
2 hours ago
I honestly don't know the term "bi-erasure" or what it means. But what I wrote wasn't meant as dismissive towards your suggestion at all. I understood your suggestion in the way that it does not have to be brought up at all, because people will get it - and I agree that it doesn't have to be foreshadowed, but having a conversation at some point about it is, I think, a good idea. So yeah, it seems to me that we agree!
– Spectrosaurus
2 hours ago
I wasn't accusing you of bi-erasure sorry if it came off that way. I just meant that talking about it is good. Bi-erasure is about the concept that society thinks everyone is either straight or gay and forces people into that box. People moving from a partner of one gender to another are said to be "switching sides" or "confused." Both the straight and the gay community do this to bisexuals. (I realize I'm talking about gender as a binary here and it's not, but it works better for these examples, as well as describing mainstream thought). (continued)
– Cyn
2 hours ago
People talk about about losing friends/family when they first date someone of the same sex. In my case, I lost a large portion of my community when I went from mostly dating women to falling in love with a man who I'm now married to. My sexual orientation did not change! Will never change! But both the straight & gay community treat me as straight and most do not understand bisexuality. In fact, it's usually treated as "oh so that means you have to be with a man and a woman at the same time?" Poly is fine too but it has nothing to do with sexual orientation and is not part of the def of bi.
– Cyn
2 hours ago
Okay I got you! I didn't think you were accusing me of it, I just hadn't heard that term before. I think it's a difficult concept to grasp for many people, so yeah it's definitely good to talk about it. By the way, you might enjoy the song "Getting Bi" from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, it's a funny song about bisexuality and about how it's not the same as being gay.
– Spectrosaurus
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Is Eris aware of her bisexuality herself? Or is she maybe confused at first as well? If the latter is the case, I think it's quite simple - you can write about her feelings on the subject, and people will understand.
So it all depends a bit on how confident Eris is about her sexuality, and how dramatic the whole thing should be. But I'm going to assume that she herself is not confused by this and that it's not supposed to be a dramatic reveal with a hurt male ex-lover coming to terms with her bisexuality or anything like that, since you say it's supposed to be "casual". You also say that she's grown up isolated, so maybe she never even questioned her bisexual feelings anyway, because the mainstream society we know and love/hate has not influenced her on what is considered appropriate.
In that case, there are two solutions in my mind: the one proposed by Cyn - just don't mention it, people will get it - and the one where someone asks her about it, and she gets the chance for a casual statement. For example a best friend who sees her kissing Marina could ask her "Oh, I thought you were interested in men! What happened?", and she could reply, depending on her character, something like "Uh, bisexuality, it's a thing, google it", or "Actually I don't really have preferences, and Marina is hot as hell". Or whatever. But I don't think such a situation seems forced, because between friends it is perfectly fine to ask about each other's sexual preferences, and to give an honest answer.
I think both are valid, but Cyn's version of not saying anything would be a bit too "aggressively casual" for me personally, I would prefer that someone mentions it but that everyone is cool with it. In our society, LGBT is still something that stands out from the crowd - not in a negative way in many cases, but still in a way that people want to acknowledge it. Just like you would have people remarking on brightly colored hair, it's something that people like to talk about and are curious about.
Is Eris aware of her bisexuality herself? Or is she maybe confused at first as well? If the latter is the case, I think it's quite simple - you can write about her feelings on the subject, and people will understand.
So it all depends a bit on how confident Eris is about her sexuality, and how dramatic the whole thing should be. But I'm going to assume that she herself is not confused by this and that it's not supposed to be a dramatic reveal with a hurt male ex-lover coming to terms with her bisexuality or anything like that, since you say it's supposed to be "casual". You also say that she's grown up isolated, so maybe she never even questioned her bisexual feelings anyway, because the mainstream society we know and love/hate has not influenced her on what is considered appropriate.
In that case, there are two solutions in my mind: the one proposed by Cyn - just don't mention it, people will get it - and the one where someone asks her about it, and she gets the chance for a casual statement. For example a best friend who sees her kissing Marina could ask her "Oh, I thought you were interested in men! What happened?", and she could reply, depending on her character, something like "Uh, bisexuality, it's a thing, google it", or "Actually I don't really have preferences, and Marina is hot as hell". Or whatever. But I don't think such a situation seems forced, because between friends it is perfectly fine to ask about each other's sexual preferences, and to give an honest answer.
I think both are valid, but Cyn's version of not saying anything would be a bit too "aggressively casual" for me personally, I would prefer that someone mentions it but that everyone is cool with it. In our society, LGBT is still something that stands out from the crowd - not in a negative way in many cases, but still in a way that people want to acknowledge it. Just like you would have people remarking on brightly colored hair, it's something that people like to talk about and are curious about.
answered 3 hours ago
SpectrosaurusSpectrosaurus
571210
571210
I don't have a problem with it coming up in conversation. Bi-erasure is a real thing and I think it's very important to talk about being bi and to do so casually, especially for those of us in relationships that cause others to perceive us as straight. But I also don't think it's required for the author to create a scene where it comes up in conversation. Because it does come up in the book. The question is about foreshadowing and I don't find that necessary, but I understand that some people do.
– Cyn
2 hours ago
I honestly don't know the term "bi-erasure" or what it means. But what I wrote wasn't meant as dismissive towards your suggestion at all. I understood your suggestion in the way that it does not have to be brought up at all, because people will get it - and I agree that it doesn't have to be foreshadowed, but having a conversation at some point about it is, I think, a good idea. So yeah, it seems to me that we agree!
– Spectrosaurus
2 hours ago
I wasn't accusing you of bi-erasure sorry if it came off that way. I just meant that talking about it is good. Bi-erasure is about the concept that society thinks everyone is either straight or gay and forces people into that box. People moving from a partner of one gender to another are said to be "switching sides" or "confused." Both the straight and the gay community do this to bisexuals. (I realize I'm talking about gender as a binary here and it's not, but it works better for these examples, as well as describing mainstream thought). (continued)
– Cyn
2 hours ago
People talk about about losing friends/family when they first date someone of the same sex. In my case, I lost a large portion of my community when I went from mostly dating women to falling in love with a man who I'm now married to. My sexual orientation did not change! Will never change! But both the straight & gay community treat me as straight and most do not understand bisexuality. In fact, it's usually treated as "oh so that means you have to be with a man and a woman at the same time?" Poly is fine too but it has nothing to do with sexual orientation and is not part of the def of bi.
– Cyn
2 hours ago
Okay I got you! I didn't think you were accusing me of it, I just hadn't heard that term before. I think it's a difficult concept to grasp for many people, so yeah it's definitely good to talk about it. By the way, you might enjoy the song "Getting Bi" from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, it's a funny song about bisexuality and about how it's not the same as being gay.
– Spectrosaurus
2 hours ago
add a comment |
I don't have a problem with it coming up in conversation. Bi-erasure is a real thing and I think it's very important to talk about being bi and to do so casually, especially for those of us in relationships that cause others to perceive us as straight. But I also don't think it's required for the author to create a scene where it comes up in conversation. Because it does come up in the book. The question is about foreshadowing and I don't find that necessary, but I understand that some people do.
– Cyn
2 hours ago
I honestly don't know the term "bi-erasure" or what it means. But what I wrote wasn't meant as dismissive towards your suggestion at all. I understood your suggestion in the way that it does not have to be brought up at all, because people will get it - and I agree that it doesn't have to be foreshadowed, but having a conversation at some point about it is, I think, a good idea. So yeah, it seems to me that we agree!
– Spectrosaurus
2 hours ago
I wasn't accusing you of bi-erasure sorry if it came off that way. I just meant that talking about it is good. Bi-erasure is about the concept that society thinks everyone is either straight or gay and forces people into that box. People moving from a partner of one gender to another are said to be "switching sides" or "confused." Both the straight and the gay community do this to bisexuals. (I realize I'm talking about gender as a binary here and it's not, but it works better for these examples, as well as describing mainstream thought). (continued)
– Cyn
2 hours ago
People talk about about losing friends/family when they first date someone of the same sex. In my case, I lost a large portion of my community when I went from mostly dating women to falling in love with a man who I'm now married to. My sexual orientation did not change! Will never change! But both the straight & gay community treat me as straight and most do not understand bisexuality. In fact, it's usually treated as "oh so that means you have to be with a man and a woman at the same time?" Poly is fine too but it has nothing to do with sexual orientation and is not part of the def of bi.
– Cyn
2 hours ago
Okay I got you! I didn't think you were accusing me of it, I just hadn't heard that term before. I think it's a difficult concept to grasp for many people, so yeah it's definitely good to talk about it. By the way, you might enjoy the song "Getting Bi" from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, it's a funny song about bisexuality and about how it's not the same as being gay.
– Spectrosaurus
2 hours ago
I don't have a problem with it coming up in conversation. Bi-erasure is a real thing and I think it's very important to talk about being bi and to do so casually, especially for those of us in relationships that cause others to perceive us as straight. But I also don't think it's required for the author to create a scene where it comes up in conversation. Because it does come up in the book. The question is about foreshadowing and I don't find that necessary, but I understand that some people do.
– Cyn
2 hours ago
I don't have a problem with it coming up in conversation. Bi-erasure is a real thing and I think it's very important to talk about being bi and to do so casually, especially for those of us in relationships that cause others to perceive us as straight. But I also don't think it's required for the author to create a scene where it comes up in conversation. Because it does come up in the book. The question is about foreshadowing and I don't find that necessary, but I understand that some people do.
– Cyn
2 hours ago
I honestly don't know the term "bi-erasure" or what it means. But what I wrote wasn't meant as dismissive towards your suggestion at all. I understood your suggestion in the way that it does not have to be brought up at all, because people will get it - and I agree that it doesn't have to be foreshadowed, but having a conversation at some point about it is, I think, a good idea. So yeah, it seems to me that we agree!
– Spectrosaurus
2 hours ago
I honestly don't know the term "bi-erasure" or what it means. But what I wrote wasn't meant as dismissive towards your suggestion at all. I understood your suggestion in the way that it does not have to be brought up at all, because people will get it - and I agree that it doesn't have to be foreshadowed, but having a conversation at some point about it is, I think, a good idea. So yeah, it seems to me that we agree!
– Spectrosaurus
2 hours ago
I wasn't accusing you of bi-erasure sorry if it came off that way. I just meant that talking about it is good. Bi-erasure is about the concept that society thinks everyone is either straight or gay and forces people into that box. People moving from a partner of one gender to another are said to be "switching sides" or "confused." Both the straight and the gay community do this to bisexuals. (I realize I'm talking about gender as a binary here and it's not, but it works better for these examples, as well as describing mainstream thought). (continued)
– Cyn
2 hours ago
I wasn't accusing you of bi-erasure sorry if it came off that way. I just meant that talking about it is good. Bi-erasure is about the concept that society thinks everyone is either straight or gay and forces people into that box. People moving from a partner of one gender to another are said to be "switching sides" or "confused." Both the straight and the gay community do this to bisexuals. (I realize I'm talking about gender as a binary here and it's not, but it works better for these examples, as well as describing mainstream thought). (continued)
– Cyn
2 hours ago
People talk about about losing friends/family when they first date someone of the same sex. In my case, I lost a large portion of my community when I went from mostly dating women to falling in love with a man who I'm now married to. My sexual orientation did not change! Will never change! But both the straight & gay community treat me as straight and most do not understand bisexuality. In fact, it's usually treated as "oh so that means you have to be with a man and a woman at the same time?" Poly is fine too but it has nothing to do with sexual orientation and is not part of the def of bi.
– Cyn
2 hours ago
People talk about about losing friends/family when they first date someone of the same sex. In my case, I lost a large portion of my community when I went from mostly dating women to falling in love with a man who I'm now married to. My sexual orientation did not change! Will never change! But both the straight & gay community treat me as straight and most do not understand bisexuality. In fact, it's usually treated as "oh so that means you have to be with a man and a woman at the same time?" Poly is fine too but it has nothing to do with sexual orientation and is not part of the def of bi.
– Cyn
2 hours ago
Okay I got you! I didn't think you were accusing me of it, I just hadn't heard that term before. I think it's a difficult concept to grasp for many people, so yeah it's definitely good to talk about it. By the way, you might enjoy the song "Getting Bi" from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, it's a funny song about bisexuality and about how it's not the same as being gay.
– Spectrosaurus
2 hours ago
Okay I got you! I didn't think you were accusing me of it, I just hadn't heard that term before. I think it's a difficult concept to grasp for many people, so yeah it's definitely good to talk about it. By the way, you might enjoy the song "Getting Bi" from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, it's a funny song about bisexuality and about how it's not the same as being gay.
– Spectrosaurus
2 hours ago
add a comment |
If you truly want to be casual, don't mention it at all. Let the reader work it out for themselves.
But, be aware of erasing bi and trans identities, you aren't doing them any favors by "normalizing" to gay
You are setting up a love triangle which may or may not have a conclusion with one being picked over the other. Reader (and author) expectations are a Chekov's gun – no story stands independent of reality. If one person in the triangle is seen as the inevitable conclusion of the character's self-discovery, or coded as the healthier choice by reasons of plot/character, it adds all sorts of implications on the final outcome.
When you shift a character's sexual orientation, there are socially-coded "rules" that popular media seems to reenforce. You are "swimming against a current" of reader expectations, and the normal might depend on the culture.
Characters are rewarded for moving from "straight" to "gay".
Characters are punished for moving from "gay" to "straight".
One is seen as "true", the other is seen as "false". This is of course not how fluid sexuality works, and it completely ignores the experiences of bi and trans people who's normal sexual identities are erased under this "rule".
The rule reflects a modern convention that people will be happier once they "admit" they are gay and stop "pretending" to be straight to conform to society. And of course it use to be the Freudian opposite, gay people were unhappy until they conformed to straight. Both are a reflection of "Heteronormativity" (I won't make up a word like "queernormativity" but that is exactly the dynamic even though it's an oxymoron, it is a reaction to heteronormativity).
To preserve this idea a modern corollary to the rule is also enforced: people who were once "gay" and now have a "straight" relationship are in denial of their "true" selves, they are psychologically false or being deceptive for personal gain.
Again, this isn't how real fluid sexuality works, but this bias is very strongly re-enforced by a society that is uncomfortable with people they can't put in a permanent box, and stick a pin in so they won't squirm out. Be aware of the biases inherent in your generation and your immediate social group.
You are writing bi and trans characters, but are you representing them in a way that is true to their nature, or are you "normalizing" them to confirm social and sexual biases? The issue is that Bi and trans people are sub-minority even as they are lumped under LGBT, so they are erased twice. You may not have room to represent other bi or trans people in your story who could show there is no message behind the final relationship pairing.
This doesn't appear to answer the question?
– motosubatsu
3 hours ago
The OP is setting up a love triangle which may or may not have a conclusion with one being picked over the other. Reader and author expectations are a Chekov's gun – no story stands independent of reality. If one person in the triangle is seen as an inevitable conclusion of the character's self-discovery, or coded as the healthier choice by reasons of plot/character that adds all sorts of implications on the final outcome.
– wetcircuit
3 hours ago
You seem to have gone from the OP's "How can I casually insert sexual orientation?" to, well I have to be honest I'm not quite sure where, some kind of rant suggesting the OP was looking to "erase bi and trans"? Your edit makes (slightly) more sense but I'm sorry I still don't see how this answers the question at hand.
– motosubatsu
3 hours ago
LOL, I am warning that there may NOT be a "casual" ie: consequence and implication-free way to do this. Awareness of what might go wrong IS ANSWERING THE QUESTION.
– wetcircuit
3 hours ago
1
No harm, no foul.
– motosubatsu
2 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
If you truly want to be casual, don't mention it at all. Let the reader work it out for themselves.
But, be aware of erasing bi and trans identities, you aren't doing them any favors by "normalizing" to gay
You are setting up a love triangle which may or may not have a conclusion with one being picked over the other. Reader (and author) expectations are a Chekov's gun – no story stands independent of reality. If one person in the triangle is seen as the inevitable conclusion of the character's self-discovery, or coded as the healthier choice by reasons of plot/character, it adds all sorts of implications on the final outcome.
When you shift a character's sexual orientation, there are socially-coded "rules" that popular media seems to reenforce. You are "swimming against a current" of reader expectations, and the normal might depend on the culture.
Characters are rewarded for moving from "straight" to "gay".
Characters are punished for moving from "gay" to "straight".
One is seen as "true", the other is seen as "false". This is of course not how fluid sexuality works, and it completely ignores the experiences of bi and trans people who's normal sexual identities are erased under this "rule".
The rule reflects a modern convention that people will be happier once they "admit" they are gay and stop "pretending" to be straight to conform to society. And of course it use to be the Freudian opposite, gay people were unhappy until they conformed to straight. Both are a reflection of "Heteronormativity" (I won't make up a word like "queernormativity" but that is exactly the dynamic even though it's an oxymoron, it is a reaction to heteronormativity).
To preserve this idea a modern corollary to the rule is also enforced: people who were once "gay" and now have a "straight" relationship are in denial of their "true" selves, they are psychologically false or being deceptive for personal gain.
Again, this isn't how real fluid sexuality works, but this bias is very strongly re-enforced by a society that is uncomfortable with people they can't put in a permanent box, and stick a pin in so they won't squirm out. Be aware of the biases inherent in your generation and your immediate social group.
You are writing bi and trans characters, but are you representing them in a way that is true to their nature, or are you "normalizing" them to confirm social and sexual biases? The issue is that Bi and trans people are sub-minority even as they are lumped under LGBT, so they are erased twice. You may not have room to represent other bi or trans people in your story who could show there is no message behind the final relationship pairing.
This doesn't appear to answer the question?
– motosubatsu
3 hours ago
The OP is setting up a love triangle which may or may not have a conclusion with one being picked over the other. Reader and author expectations are a Chekov's gun – no story stands independent of reality. If one person in the triangle is seen as an inevitable conclusion of the character's self-discovery, or coded as the healthier choice by reasons of plot/character that adds all sorts of implications on the final outcome.
– wetcircuit
3 hours ago
You seem to have gone from the OP's "How can I casually insert sexual orientation?" to, well I have to be honest I'm not quite sure where, some kind of rant suggesting the OP was looking to "erase bi and trans"? Your edit makes (slightly) more sense but I'm sorry I still don't see how this answers the question at hand.
– motosubatsu
3 hours ago
LOL, I am warning that there may NOT be a "casual" ie: consequence and implication-free way to do this. Awareness of what might go wrong IS ANSWERING THE QUESTION.
– wetcircuit
3 hours ago
1
No harm, no foul.
– motosubatsu
2 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
If you truly want to be casual, don't mention it at all. Let the reader work it out for themselves.
But, be aware of erasing bi and trans identities, you aren't doing them any favors by "normalizing" to gay
You are setting up a love triangle which may or may not have a conclusion with one being picked over the other. Reader (and author) expectations are a Chekov's gun – no story stands independent of reality. If one person in the triangle is seen as the inevitable conclusion of the character's self-discovery, or coded as the healthier choice by reasons of plot/character, it adds all sorts of implications on the final outcome.
When you shift a character's sexual orientation, there are socially-coded "rules" that popular media seems to reenforce. You are "swimming against a current" of reader expectations, and the normal might depend on the culture.
Characters are rewarded for moving from "straight" to "gay".
Characters are punished for moving from "gay" to "straight".
One is seen as "true", the other is seen as "false". This is of course not how fluid sexuality works, and it completely ignores the experiences of bi and trans people who's normal sexual identities are erased under this "rule".
The rule reflects a modern convention that people will be happier once they "admit" they are gay and stop "pretending" to be straight to conform to society. And of course it use to be the Freudian opposite, gay people were unhappy until they conformed to straight. Both are a reflection of "Heteronormativity" (I won't make up a word like "queernormativity" but that is exactly the dynamic even though it's an oxymoron, it is a reaction to heteronormativity).
To preserve this idea a modern corollary to the rule is also enforced: people who were once "gay" and now have a "straight" relationship are in denial of their "true" selves, they are psychologically false or being deceptive for personal gain.
Again, this isn't how real fluid sexuality works, but this bias is very strongly re-enforced by a society that is uncomfortable with people they can't put in a permanent box, and stick a pin in so they won't squirm out. Be aware of the biases inherent in your generation and your immediate social group.
You are writing bi and trans characters, but are you representing them in a way that is true to their nature, or are you "normalizing" them to confirm social and sexual biases? The issue is that Bi and trans people are sub-minority even as they are lumped under LGBT, so they are erased twice. You may not have room to represent other bi or trans people in your story who could show there is no message behind the final relationship pairing.
If you truly want to be casual, don't mention it at all. Let the reader work it out for themselves.
But, be aware of erasing bi and trans identities, you aren't doing them any favors by "normalizing" to gay
You are setting up a love triangle which may or may not have a conclusion with one being picked over the other. Reader (and author) expectations are a Chekov's gun – no story stands independent of reality. If one person in the triangle is seen as the inevitable conclusion of the character's self-discovery, or coded as the healthier choice by reasons of plot/character, it adds all sorts of implications on the final outcome.
When you shift a character's sexual orientation, there are socially-coded "rules" that popular media seems to reenforce. You are "swimming against a current" of reader expectations, and the normal might depend on the culture.
Characters are rewarded for moving from "straight" to "gay".
Characters are punished for moving from "gay" to "straight".
One is seen as "true", the other is seen as "false". This is of course not how fluid sexuality works, and it completely ignores the experiences of bi and trans people who's normal sexual identities are erased under this "rule".
The rule reflects a modern convention that people will be happier once they "admit" they are gay and stop "pretending" to be straight to conform to society. And of course it use to be the Freudian opposite, gay people were unhappy until they conformed to straight. Both are a reflection of "Heteronormativity" (I won't make up a word like "queernormativity" but that is exactly the dynamic even though it's an oxymoron, it is a reaction to heteronormativity).
To preserve this idea a modern corollary to the rule is also enforced: people who were once "gay" and now have a "straight" relationship are in denial of their "true" selves, they are psychologically false or being deceptive for personal gain.
Again, this isn't how real fluid sexuality works, but this bias is very strongly re-enforced by a society that is uncomfortable with people they can't put in a permanent box, and stick a pin in so they won't squirm out. Be aware of the biases inherent in your generation and your immediate social group.
You are writing bi and trans characters, but are you representing them in a way that is true to their nature, or are you "normalizing" them to confirm social and sexual biases? The issue is that Bi and trans people are sub-minority even as they are lumped under LGBT, so they are erased twice. You may not have room to represent other bi or trans people in your story who could show there is no message behind the final relationship pairing.
edited 2 hours ago
answered 4 hours ago
wetcircuitwetcircuit
12.2k22257
12.2k22257
This doesn't appear to answer the question?
– motosubatsu
3 hours ago
The OP is setting up a love triangle which may or may not have a conclusion with one being picked over the other. Reader and author expectations are a Chekov's gun – no story stands independent of reality. If one person in the triangle is seen as an inevitable conclusion of the character's self-discovery, or coded as the healthier choice by reasons of plot/character that adds all sorts of implications on the final outcome.
– wetcircuit
3 hours ago
You seem to have gone from the OP's "How can I casually insert sexual orientation?" to, well I have to be honest I'm not quite sure where, some kind of rant suggesting the OP was looking to "erase bi and trans"? Your edit makes (slightly) more sense but I'm sorry I still don't see how this answers the question at hand.
– motosubatsu
3 hours ago
LOL, I am warning that there may NOT be a "casual" ie: consequence and implication-free way to do this. Awareness of what might go wrong IS ANSWERING THE QUESTION.
– wetcircuit
3 hours ago
1
No harm, no foul.
– motosubatsu
2 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
This doesn't appear to answer the question?
– motosubatsu
3 hours ago
The OP is setting up a love triangle which may or may not have a conclusion with one being picked over the other. Reader and author expectations are a Chekov's gun – no story stands independent of reality. If one person in the triangle is seen as an inevitable conclusion of the character's self-discovery, or coded as the healthier choice by reasons of plot/character that adds all sorts of implications on the final outcome.
– wetcircuit
3 hours ago
You seem to have gone from the OP's "How can I casually insert sexual orientation?" to, well I have to be honest I'm not quite sure where, some kind of rant suggesting the OP was looking to "erase bi and trans"? Your edit makes (slightly) more sense but I'm sorry I still don't see how this answers the question at hand.
– motosubatsu
3 hours ago
LOL, I am warning that there may NOT be a "casual" ie: consequence and implication-free way to do this. Awareness of what might go wrong IS ANSWERING THE QUESTION.
– wetcircuit
3 hours ago
1
No harm, no foul.
– motosubatsu
2 hours ago
This doesn't appear to answer the question?
– motosubatsu
3 hours ago
This doesn't appear to answer the question?
– motosubatsu
3 hours ago
The OP is setting up a love triangle which may or may not have a conclusion with one being picked over the other. Reader and author expectations are a Chekov's gun – no story stands independent of reality. If one person in the triangle is seen as an inevitable conclusion of the character's self-discovery, or coded as the healthier choice by reasons of plot/character that adds all sorts of implications on the final outcome.
– wetcircuit
3 hours ago
The OP is setting up a love triangle which may or may not have a conclusion with one being picked over the other. Reader and author expectations are a Chekov's gun – no story stands independent of reality. If one person in the triangle is seen as an inevitable conclusion of the character's self-discovery, or coded as the healthier choice by reasons of plot/character that adds all sorts of implications on the final outcome.
– wetcircuit
3 hours ago
You seem to have gone from the OP's "How can I casually insert sexual orientation?" to, well I have to be honest I'm not quite sure where, some kind of rant suggesting the OP was looking to "erase bi and trans"? Your edit makes (slightly) more sense but I'm sorry I still don't see how this answers the question at hand.
– motosubatsu
3 hours ago
You seem to have gone from the OP's "How can I casually insert sexual orientation?" to, well I have to be honest I'm not quite sure where, some kind of rant suggesting the OP was looking to "erase bi and trans"? Your edit makes (slightly) more sense but I'm sorry I still don't see how this answers the question at hand.
– motosubatsu
3 hours ago
LOL, I am warning that there may NOT be a "casual" ie: consequence and implication-free way to do this. Awareness of what might go wrong IS ANSWERING THE QUESTION.
– wetcircuit
3 hours ago
LOL, I am warning that there may NOT be a "casual" ie: consequence and implication-free way to do this. Awareness of what might go wrong IS ANSWERING THE QUESTION.
– wetcircuit
3 hours ago
1
1
No harm, no foul.
– motosubatsu
2 hours ago
No harm, no foul.
– motosubatsu
2 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
Thanks for contributing an answer to Writing Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fwriting.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f43003%2fcasually-inserting-sexual-orientation%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
2
if you were yourself is such a situation I imagine you wouldn't immediately understand your feelings as your sexuality shifts. Writing the characters own confusion during the transition seems a straight forward solution
– BKlassen
19 hours ago
2
@BKlassen bisexuality isn't necessarily confusion.
– bruglesco
18 hours ago
1
@bruglesco no, and my comment refers to the transitory confusion between one sexuality and another not that a sexual preference is confused
– BKlassen
18 hours ago
2
@BKlassen The reader perhaps being confused is not the same as the character being confused. Sexuality is not binary! Bisexuality (and pansexuality) is not a fringe state of being. It's common and mainstream. The only confusion is from people who don't understand what bisexuality means!
– Cyn
18 hours ago
1
I assume Eris is your POV character. So this is becoming just your choice of how subtle or explicit you want to be in revealing her sexuality.
– Alexander
17 hours ago