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Can I cast Passwall to drop an enemy into a 20-foot pit?



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)What is the source of the “spells do only what they say they do” rules interpretation principle?Does my enemy get to make a saving throw for half damage for absolutely any spell I cast?What happens if the barrier of a Cube of Force collide with an Passwall spell? And with a Wall of Fire for a 2nd time?What constitutes “against its nature” and “obviously self-destructive” for Dominate Person?Can Watery Sphere protect against fall damage?Using burning disarm on an embedded metal itemHow can one use the Shape Water cantrip offensively?Can Mage Hand drop Magic Stones on an enemy?Undead tripping an illusory pit trap--how will they react?Can I drop concentration on a damaging spell before it affects an ally in combat?If a Gelatinous Cube takes up the entire space of a Pit Trap, what happens when a creature falls into the trap but succeeds on the saving throw?





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Can I cast Passwall under an enemy to drop them into a 20-foot pit?



If so, does said enemy get any saving throw to avoid the effect?










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  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @ThisIsMe Please do not answer in the comments. Comments are only for asking for clarification or suggesting improvement to the question. Anything suggesting solutions to the question need to go into an answer. See here for our policy. Thanks! (Also there is no such spell in 5e, you are likely thinking of an earlier edition).
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    13 hours ago




















12












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Can I cast Passwall under an enemy to drop them into a 20-foot pit?



If so, does said enemy get any saving throw to avoid the effect?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @ThisIsMe Please do not answer in the comments. Comments are only for asking for clarification or suggesting improvement to the question. Anything suggesting solutions to the question need to go into an answer. See here for our policy. Thanks! (Also there is no such spell in 5e, you are likely thinking of an earlier edition).
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    13 hours ago
















12












12








12





$begingroup$


Can I cast Passwall under an enemy to drop them into a 20-foot pit?



If so, does said enemy get any saving throw to avoid the effect?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




Can I cast Passwall under an enemy to drop them into a 20-foot pit?



If so, does said enemy get any saving throw to avoid the effect?







dnd-5e spells






share|improve this question















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edited 21 hours ago









V2Blast

27.5k596166




27.5k596166










asked 21 hours ago









MerudoMerudo

47316




47316








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @ThisIsMe Please do not answer in the comments. Comments are only for asking for clarification or suggesting improvement to the question. Anything suggesting solutions to the question need to go into an answer. See here for our policy. Thanks! (Also there is no such spell in 5e, you are likely thinking of an earlier edition).
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    13 hours ago
















  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @ThisIsMe Please do not answer in the comments. Comments are only for asking for clarification or suggesting improvement to the question. Anything suggesting solutions to the question need to go into an answer. See here for our policy. Thanks! (Also there is no such spell in 5e, you are likely thinking of an earlier edition).
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    13 hours ago










1




1




$begingroup$
@ThisIsMe Please do not answer in the comments. Comments are only for asking for clarification or suggesting improvement to the question. Anything suggesting solutions to the question need to go into an answer. See here for our policy. Thanks! (Also there is no such spell in 5e, you are likely thinking of an earlier edition).
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
13 hours ago






$begingroup$
@ThisIsMe Please do not answer in the comments. Comments are only for asking for clarification or suggesting improvement to the question. Anything suggesting solutions to the question need to go into an answer. See here for our policy. Thanks! (Also there is no such spell in 5e, you are likely thinking of an earlier edition).
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
13 hours ago












4 Answers
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This technically works, but they're safely ejected after an hour



The passwall spell description says:




A passage appears at a point of your choice that you can see on a wooden, plaster, or stone surface (such as a wall, a ceiling, or a floor) within range, and lasts for the duration. You choose the opening's dimensions: up to 5 feet wide, 8 feet tall, and 20 feet deep. The passage creates no instability in a structure surrounding it.



When the opening disappears, any creatures or objects still in the passage created by the spell are safely ejected to an unoccupied space nearest to the surface on which you cast the spell.




The spell description does state that a floor is a valid target, as long as it's a wooden, plaster, or stone surface. And as you note, the passage can be up to 5 feet in one dimension, 8 feet in the other, and 20 feet deep - so it can create a pit that's 20 feet deep.



The spell doesn't specify whether any enemy standing on such a floor gets a saving throw to avoid falling... So if spells do what they say they do, the creature arguably falls instantly without a saving throw (assuming they aren't flying or hovering). Of course, the spell doesn't address this possibility specifically, so a DM could easily house-rule otherwise.



However, this can't be used to permanently trap the enemy that falls in; after an hour (the spell's duration), as the description states, any creature still in the passage is safely ejected to an unoccupied space near the surface on which the spell was cast (so, the floor above) and the passage goes away. Thus, while the spell could inconvenience the enemy for up to an hour, they are free to do as they wish afterwards. The only way to trap them like this would be to cast it such that they fall into an enclosed space 20 feet or less beneath the floor.






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    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
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    – mxyzplk
    1 hour ago



















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Yes, I think that Passwall could be used to tunnel or dig into a space that doesn't reach an opening on the other side (ie. hillside or ground).



However, 20 feet of falling damage to one or two opponents may not be the most effective use of the spell. They may be able to climb out or escape relatively quickly and the one hour duration will eventually return them harmlessly to the surface.



Depending on your environment, such as in a castle or fortress for example, you don't need to make a 20 foot pit. If you're not on the bottom level, you could essentially remove a 5x20 or 8x20 section of a hallway floor (only 8 or 5 feet deep, thicker than the floor should be), dropping your opponents to the level below and then end the spell effect, restoring the floor/ceiling above them.



This application may not damage or immobilize your targets, but it should at least remove them from combat until they are able to find you again.






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Canis Animus is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • $begingroup$
    Per your suggestion, I just edited to clearly answer the question and provide reasoning prior to the alternative spell usage suggestion.
    $endgroup$
    – Canis Animus
    15 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    awesome! Good answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Thank you. That was my first post in any Stack. I appreciate the input.
    $endgroup$
    – Canis Animus
    12 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    well welcome! It was a good answer and I hope to see you around and contributing more! Once you hit 50 rep you'll be able to also contribute to chat which is a fun place where we hang out and talk about RPGs occasionally and the site. Hope to see you around!
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    12 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    I mean, removing one or more enemies in a fight can make that fight much easier - 1+1<2 in combat after all
    $endgroup$
    – Selkie
    11 hours ago



















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Spells do what they say, no more, no less.



The passage created by Passwall is



No more than 8 feet tall



The spell reads:




You choose the opening's dimensions: up to 5 feet wide, 8 feet tall, and 20 feet deep




These are restrictions on the passage. For normal use, the height of a passwall tunnel and its depth are in different direction.



For a "pit", depth and height end up aligning.



When you build one going down, both the depth and the height are restrictions on how far down it can go.



Similarly, the width is limited to 5'; so you can use passwall to create a 5' by 5' by 8' pit.



A 20' pit would be allowed by "20 feet deep", but it would be more than "8 feet tall", so isn't allowed by the full restrictions of the spell.



There is no saving throw against this effect, because spells do what they say and no more.



As you take 1d6 damage for every 10', this pit does 0 damage. It is a bit annoying to climb out, especially for small foes.



You could use it quite effectively on a bridge that is less than 8' thick; the target would fall through the bridge with no saving throw.






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    Several things occur to me from a lengthy amount of time playing D&D (about 15 years starting in the mid-1970s on "tabletop" and continuing electronically today).




    1. The GM/DM (or whatever) is the ultimate adjudicator in the use of spells, but they are normally considered to do what they say - which means in the case of a Passwall: Yes, they can make a hole in the floor. However...


    2. When applied to the floor, the dimensions would remain being transfigured to the "new plane" as a hole "up to 5 feet wide" (approx 18 inches to either side of your (character's) body and 8 feet long (the "new plane's" conversion of tall) and 20 feet deep (which means deep in any direction the resultant hole is facing), thus causing 2d6 of falling damage to anyone who falls in, plus (possible) crushing damage to the bottom ones if more than 2 should fall in if it is cast "in front of" charging enemies.


    3. As for "saving throws", it would depend on the person running the campaign or scenario. The people I played with have said yes, because spells are not instantaneous; they requires voice and or hand/wand gestures (and sometimes use of ingredients) to cast, and therefore any "practiced adventurer" (over 1st level) who has seen spells cast, and especially spellcasters, would recognize that one was being cast and act to dodge away from the area it seemed to be aimed towards, or even act to counter if that is used in the particular game, and would therefore get a "Reflex Save" to see if they accomplished their chosen action in time.


    4. And as a last "tidbit" to think about: while the hole created will spit them back out "when it ends", the spell doesn't say you can not throw "room furnishings" on top of those in the pit to help ensure not only more damage but less of a chance of them climbing out if there is enough available, such as in the "dining hall" or armory of a castle. Being "pinned" by several hundred pounds of furniture or weapons should make getting out a lot harder, if you don't care to stand around shooting "fish-in-a-barrel" while they are stuck. Or dump in a couple of barrels of oil and a torch to keep them toasty warm while you avoid any friends of theirs in the area.







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    • $begingroup$
      Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. There are no such things as "Reflex saves" in D&D 5e; are you getting the terminology confused with a different system?
      $endgroup$
      – V2Blast
      47 mins ago












    Your Answer








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    4 Answers
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    4 Answers
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    active

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    19












    $begingroup$

    This technically works, but they're safely ejected after an hour



    The passwall spell description says:




    A passage appears at a point of your choice that you can see on a wooden, plaster, or stone surface (such as a wall, a ceiling, or a floor) within range, and lasts for the duration. You choose the opening's dimensions: up to 5 feet wide, 8 feet tall, and 20 feet deep. The passage creates no instability in a structure surrounding it.



    When the opening disappears, any creatures or objects still in the passage created by the spell are safely ejected to an unoccupied space nearest to the surface on which you cast the spell.




    The spell description does state that a floor is a valid target, as long as it's a wooden, plaster, or stone surface. And as you note, the passage can be up to 5 feet in one dimension, 8 feet in the other, and 20 feet deep - so it can create a pit that's 20 feet deep.



    The spell doesn't specify whether any enemy standing on such a floor gets a saving throw to avoid falling... So if spells do what they say they do, the creature arguably falls instantly without a saving throw (assuming they aren't flying or hovering). Of course, the spell doesn't address this possibility specifically, so a DM could easily house-rule otherwise.



    However, this can't be used to permanently trap the enemy that falls in; after an hour (the spell's duration), as the description states, any creature still in the passage is safely ejected to an unoccupied space near the surface on which the spell was cast (so, the floor above) and the passage goes away. Thus, while the spell could inconvenience the enemy for up to an hour, they are free to do as they wish afterwards. The only way to trap them like this would be to cast it such that they fall into an enclosed space 20 feet or less beneath the floor.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
      $endgroup$
      – mxyzplk
      1 hour ago
















    19












    $begingroup$

    This technically works, but they're safely ejected after an hour



    The passwall spell description says:




    A passage appears at a point of your choice that you can see on a wooden, plaster, or stone surface (such as a wall, a ceiling, or a floor) within range, and lasts for the duration. You choose the opening's dimensions: up to 5 feet wide, 8 feet tall, and 20 feet deep. The passage creates no instability in a structure surrounding it.



    When the opening disappears, any creatures or objects still in the passage created by the spell are safely ejected to an unoccupied space nearest to the surface on which you cast the spell.




    The spell description does state that a floor is a valid target, as long as it's a wooden, plaster, or stone surface. And as you note, the passage can be up to 5 feet in one dimension, 8 feet in the other, and 20 feet deep - so it can create a pit that's 20 feet deep.



    The spell doesn't specify whether any enemy standing on such a floor gets a saving throw to avoid falling... So if spells do what they say they do, the creature arguably falls instantly without a saving throw (assuming they aren't flying or hovering). Of course, the spell doesn't address this possibility specifically, so a DM could easily house-rule otherwise.



    However, this can't be used to permanently trap the enemy that falls in; after an hour (the spell's duration), as the description states, any creature still in the passage is safely ejected to an unoccupied space near the surface on which the spell was cast (so, the floor above) and the passage goes away. Thus, while the spell could inconvenience the enemy for up to an hour, they are free to do as they wish afterwards. The only way to trap them like this would be to cast it such that they fall into an enclosed space 20 feet or less beneath the floor.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
      $endgroup$
      – mxyzplk
      1 hour ago














    19












    19








    19





    $begingroup$

    This technically works, but they're safely ejected after an hour



    The passwall spell description says:




    A passage appears at a point of your choice that you can see on a wooden, plaster, or stone surface (such as a wall, a ceiling, or a floor) within range, and lasts for the duration. You choose the opening's dimensions: up to 5 feet wide, 8 feet tall, and 20 feet deep. The passage creates no instability in a structure surrounding it.



    When the opening disappears, any creatures or objects still in the passage created by the spell are safely ejected to an unoccupied space nearest to the surface on which you cast the spell.




    The spell description does state that a floor is a valid target, as long as it's a wooden, plaster, or stone surface. And as you note, the passage can be up to 5 feet in one dimension, 8 feet in the other, and 20 feet deep - so it can create a pit that's 20 feet deep.



    The spell doesn't specify whether any enemy standing on such a floor gets a saving throw to avoid falling... So if spells do what they say they do, the creature arguably falls instantly without a saving throw (assuming they aren't flying or hovering). Of course, the spell doesn't address this possibility specifically, so a DM could easily house-rule otherwise.



    However, this can't be used to permanently trap the enemy that falls in; after an hour (the spell's duration), as the description states, any creature still in the passage is safely ejected to an unoccupied space near the surface on which the spell was cast (so, the floor above) and the passage goes away. Thus, while the spell could inconvenience the enemy for up to an hour, they are free to do as they wish afterwards. The only way to trap them like this would be to cast it such that they fall into an enclosed space 20 feet or less beneath the floor.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$



    This technically works, but they're safely ejected after an hour



    The passwall spell description says:




    A passage appears at a point of your choice that you can see on a wooden, plaster, or stone surface (such as a wall, a ceiling, or a floor) within range, and lasts for the duration. You choose the opening's dimensions: up to 5 feet wide, 8 feet tall, and 20 feet deep. The passage creates no instability in a structure surrounding it.



    When the opening disappears, any creatures or objects still in the passage created by the spell are safely ejected to an unoccupied space nearest to the surface on which you cast the spell.




    The spell description does state that a floor is a valid target, as long as it's a wooden, plaster, or stone surface. And as you note, the passage can be up to 5 feet in one dimension, 8 feet in the other, and 20 feet deep - so it can create a pit that's 20 feet deep.



    The spell doesn't specify whether any enemy standing on such a floor gets a saving throw to avoid falling... So if spells do what they say they do, the creature arguably falls instantly without a saving throw (assuming they aren't flying or hovering). Of course, the spell doesn't address this possibility specifically, so a DM could easily house-rule otherwise.



    However, this can't be used to permanently trap the enemy that falls in; after an hour (the spell's duration), as the description states, any creature still in the passage is safely ejected to an unoccupied space near the surface on which the spell was cast (so, the floor above) and the passage goes away. Thus, while the spell could inconvenience the enemy for up to an hour, they are free to do as they wish afterwards. The only way to trap them like this would be to cast it such that they fall into an enclosed space 20 feet or less beneath the floor.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 20 hours ago

























    answered 21 hours ago









    V2BlastV2Blast

    27.5k596166




    27.5k596166












    • $begingroup$
      Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
      $endgroup$
      – mxyzplk
      1 hour ago


















    • $begingroup$
      Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
      $endgroup$
      – mxyzplk
      1 hour ago
















    $begingroup$
    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    $endgroup$
    – mxyzplk
    1 hour ago




    $begingroup$
    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
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    – mxyzplk
    1 hour ago













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    Yes, I think that Passwall could be used to tunnel or dig into a space that doesn't reach an opening on the other side (ie. hillside or ground).



    However, 20 feet of falling damage to one or two opponents may not be the most effective use of the spell. They may be able to climb out or escape relatively quickly and the one hour duration will eventually return them harmlessly to the surface.



    Depending on your environment, such as in a castle or fortress for example, you don't need to make a 20 foot pit. If you're not on the bottom level, you could essentially remove a 5x20 or 8x20 section of a hallway floor (only 8 or 5 feet deep, thicker than the floor should be), dropping your opponents to the level below and then end the spell effect, restoring the floor/ceiling above them.



    This application may not damage or immobilize your targets, but it should at least remove them from combat until they are able to find you again.






    share|improve this answer










    New contributor




    Canis Animus is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Per your suggestion, I just edited to clearly answer the question and provide reasoning prior to the alternative spell usage suggestion.
      $endgroup$
      – Canis Animus
      15 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      awesome! Good answer.
      $endgroup$
      – Rubiksmoose
      15 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      Thank you. That was my first post in any Stack. I appreciate the input.
      $endgroup$
      – Canis Animus
      12 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      well welcome! It was a good answer and I hope to see you around and contributing more! Once you hit 50 rep you'll be able to also contribute to chat which is a fun place where we hang out and talk about RPGs occasionally and the site. Hope to see you around!
      $endgroup$
      – Rubiksmoose
      12 hours ago












    • $begingroup$
      I mean, removing one or more enemies in a fight can make that fight much easier - 1+1<2 in combat after all
      $endgroup$
      – Selkie
      11 hours ago
















    5












    $begingroup$

    Yes, I think that Passwall could be used to tunnel or dig into a space that doesn't reach an opening on the other side (ie. hillside or ground).



    However, 20 feet of falling damage to one or two opponents may not be the most effective use of the spell. They may be able to climb out or escape relatively quickly and the one hour duration will eventually return them harmlessly to the surface.



    Depending on your environment, such as in a castle or fortress for example, you don't need to make a 20 foot pit. If you're not on the bottom level, you could essentially remove a 5x20 or 8x20 section of a hallway floor (only 8 or 5 feet deep, thicker than the floor should be), dropping your opponents to the level below and then end the spell effect, restoring the floor/ceiling above them.



    This application may not damage or immobilize your targets, but it should at least remove them from combat until they are able to find you again.






    share|improve this answer










    New contributor




    Canis Animus is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Per your suggestion, I just edited to clearly answer the question and provide reasoning prior to the alternative spell usage suggestion.
      $endgroup$
      – Canis Animus
      15 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      awesome! Good answer.
      $endgroup$
      – Rubiksmoose
      15 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      Thank you. That was my first post in any Stack. I appreciate the input.
      $endgroup$
      – Canis Animus
      12 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      well welcome! It was a good answer and I hope to see you around and contributing more! Once you hit 50 rep you'll be able to also contribute to chat which is a fun place where we hang out and talk about RPGs occasionally and the site. Hope to see you around!
      $endgroup$
      – Rubiksmoose
      12 hours ago












    • $begingroup$
      I mean, removing one or more enemies in a fight can make that fight much easier - 1+1<2 in combat after all
      $endgroup$
      – Selkie
      11 hours ago














    5












    5








    5





    $begingroup$

    Yes, I think that Passwall could be used to tunnel or dig into a space that doesn't reach an opening on the other side (ie. hillside or ground).



    However, 20 feet of falling damage to one or two opponents may not be the most effective use of the spell. They may be able to climb out or escape relatively quickly and the one hour duration will eventually return them harmlessly to the surface.



    Depending on your environment, such as in a castle or fortress for example, you don't need to make a 20 foot pit. If you're not on the bottom level, you could essentially remove a 5x20 or 8x20 section of a hallway floor (only 8 or 5 feet deep, thicker than the floor should be), dropping your opponents to the level below and then end the spell effect, restoring the floor/ceiling above them.



    This application may not damage or immobilize your targets, but it should at least remove them from combat until they are able to find you again.






    share|improve this answer










    New contributor




    Canis Animus is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






    $endgroup$



    Yes, I think that Passwall could be used to tunnel or dig into a space that doesn't reach an opening on the other side (ie. hillside or ground).



    However, 20 feet of falling damage to one or two opponents may not be the most effective use of the spell. They may be able to climb out or escape relatively quickly and the one hour duration will eventually return them harmlessly to the surface.



    Depending on your environment, such as in a castle or fortress for example, you don't need to make a 20 foot pit. If you're not on the bottom level, you could essentially remove a 5x20 or 8x20 section of a hallway floor (only 8 or 5 feet deep, thicker than the floor should be), dropping your opponents to the level below and then end the spell effect, restoring the floor/ceiling above them.



    This application may not damage or immobilize your targets, but it should at least remove them from combat until they are able to find you again.







    share|improve this answer










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    Canis Animus is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 15 hours ago





















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    answered 16 hours ago









    Canis AnimusCanis Animus

    515




    515




    New contributor




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    New contributor





    Canis Animus is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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    Check out our Code of Conduct.












    • $begingroup$
      Per your suggestion, I just edited to clearly answer the question and provide reasoning prior to the alternative spell usage suggestion.
      $endgroup$
      – Canis Animus
      15 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      awesome! Good answer.
      $endgroup$
      – Rubiksmoose
      15 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      Thank you. That was my first post in any Stack. I appreciate the input.
      $endgroup$
      – Canis Animus
      12 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      well welcome! It was a good answer and I hope to see you around and contributing more! Once you hit 50 rep you'll be able to also contribute to chat which is a fun place where we hang out and talk about RPGs occasionally and the site. Hope to see you around!
      $endgroup$
      – Rubiksmoose
      12 hours ago












    • $begingroup$
      I mean, removing one or more enemies in a fight can make that fight much easier - 1+1<2 in combat after all
      $endgroup$
      – Selkie
      11 hours ago


















    • $begingroup$
      Per your suggestion, I just edited to clearly answer the question and provide reasoning prior to the alternative spell usage suggestion.
      $endgroup$
      – Canis Animus
      15 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      awesome! Good answer.
      $endgroup$
      – Rubiksmoose
      15 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      Thank you. That was my first post in any Stack. I appreciate the input.
      $endgroup$
      – Canis Animus
      12 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      well welcome! It was a good answer and I hope to see you around and contributing more! Once you hit 50 rep you'll be able to also contribute to chat which is a fun place where we hang out and talk about RPGs occasionally and the site. Hope to see you around!
      $endgroup$
      – Rubiksmoose
      12 hours ago












    • $begingroup$
      I mean, removing one or more enemies in a fight can make that fight much easier - 1+1<2 in combat after all
      $endgroup$
      – Selkie
      11 hours ago
















    $begingroup$
    Per your suggestion, I just edited to clearly answer the question and provide reasoning prior to the alternative spell usage suggestion.
    $endgroup$
    – Canis Animus
    15 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    Per your suggestion, I just edited to clearly answer the question and provide reasoning prior to the alternative spell usage suggestion.
    $endgroup$
    – Canis Animus
    15 hours ago




    1




    1




    $begingroup$
    awesome! Good answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    15 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    awesome! Good answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    15 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    Thank you. That was my first post in any Stack. I appreciate the input.
    $endgroup$
    – Canis Animus
    12 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    Thank you. That was my first post in any Stack. I appreciate the input.
    $endgroup$
    – Canis Animus
    12 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    well welcome! It was a good answer and I hope to see you around and contributing more! Once you hit 50 rep you'll be able to also contribute to chat which is a fun place where we hang out and talk about RPGs occasionally and the site. Hope to see you around!
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    12 hours ago






    $begingroup$
    well welcome! It was a good answer and I hope to see you around and contributing more! Once you hit 50 rep you'll be able to also contribute to chat which is a fun place where we hang out and talk about RPGs occasionally and the site. Hope to see you around!
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    12 hours ago














    $begingroup$
    I mean, removing one or more enemies in a fight can make that fight much easier - 1+1<2 in combat after all
    $endgroup$
    – Selkie
    11 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    I mean, removing one or more enemies in a fight can make that fight much easier - 1+1<2 in combat after all
    $endgroup$
    – Selkie
    11 hours ago











    0












    $begingroup$

    Spells do what they say, no more, no less.



    The passage created by Passwall is



    No more than 8 feet tall



    The spell reads:




    You choose the opening's dimensions: up to 5 feet wide, 8 feet tall, and 20 feet deep




    These are restrictions on the passage. For normal use, the height of a passwall tunnel and its depth are in different direction.



    For a "pit", depth and height end up aligning.



    When you build one going down, both the depth and the height are restrictions on how far down it can go.



    Similarly, the width is limited to 5'; so you can use passwall to create a 5' by 5' by 8' pit.



    A 20' pit would be allowed by "20 feet deep", but it would be more than "8 feet tall", so isn't allowed by the full restrictions of the spell.



    There is no saving throw against this effect, because spells do what they say and no more.



    As you take 1d6 damage for every 10', this pit does 0 damage. It is a bit annoying to climb out, especially for small foes.



    You could use it quite effectively on a bridge that is less than 8' thick; the target would fall through the bridge with no saving throw.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$


















      0












      $begingroup$

      Spells do what they say, no more, no less.



      The passage created by Passwall is



      No more than 8 feet tall



      The spell reads:




      You choose the opening's dimensions: up to 5 feet wide, 8 feet tall, and 20 feet deep




      These are restrictions on the passage. For normal use, the height of a passwall tunnel and its depth are in different direction.



      For a "pit", depth and height end up aligning.



      When you build one going down, both the depth and the height are restrictions on how far down it can go.



      Similarly, the width is limited to 5'; so you can use passwall to create a 5' by 5' by 8' pit.



      A 20' pit would be allowed by "20 feet deep", but it would be more than "8 feet tall", so isn't allowed by the full restrictions of the spell.



      There is no saving throw against this effect, because spells do what they say and no more.



      As you take 1d6 damage for every 10', this pit does 0 damage. It is a bit annoying to climb out, especially for small foes.



      You could use it quite effectively on a bridge that is less than 8' thick; the target would fall through the bridge with no saving throw.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$
















        0












        0








        0





        $begingroup$

        Spells do what they say, no more, no less.



        The passage created by Passwall is



        No more than 8 feet tall



        The spell reads:




        You choose the opening's dimensions: up to 5 feet wide, 8 feet tall, and 20 feet deep




        These are restrictions on the passage. For normal use, the height of a passwall tunnel and its depth are in different direction.



        For a "pit", depth and height end up aligning.



        When you build one going down, both the depth and the height are restrictions on how far down it can go.



        Similarly, the width is limited to 5'; so you can use passwall to create a 5' by 5' by 8' pit.



        A 20' pit would be allowed by "20 feet deep", but it would be more than "8 feet tall", so isn't allowed by the full restrictions of the spell.



        There is no saving throw against this effect, because spells do what they say and no more.



        As you take 1d6 damage for every 10', this pit does 0 damage. It is a bit annoying to climb out, especially for small foes.



        You could use it quite effectively on a bridge that is less than 8' thick; the target would fall through the bridge with no saving throw.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        Spells do what they say, no more, no less.



        The passage created by Passwall is



        No more than 8 feet tall



        The spell reads:




        You choose the opening's dimensions: up to 5 feet wide, 8 feet tall, and 20 feet deep




        These are restrictions on the passage. For normal use, the height of a passwall tunnel and its depth are in different direction.



        For a "pit", depth and height end up aligning.



        When you build one going down, both the depth and the height are restrictions on how far down it can go.



        Similarly, the width is limited to 5'; so you can use passwall to create a 5' by 5' by 8' pit.



        A 20' pit would be allowed by "20 feet deep", but it would be more than "8 feet tall", so isn't allowed by the full restrictions of the spell.



        There is no saving throw against this effect, because spells do what they say and no more.



        As you take 1d6 damage for every 10', this pit does 0 damage. It is a bit annoying to climb out, especially for small foes.



        You could use it quite effectively on a bridge that is less than 8' thick; the target would fall through the bridge with no saving throw.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 9 hours ago









        YakkYakk

        7,9361143




        7,9361143























            -1












            $begingroup$

            Several things occur to me from a lengthy amount of time playing D&D (about 15 years starting in the mid-1970s on "tabletop" and continuing electronically today).




            1. The GM/DM (or whatever) is the ultimate adjudicator in the use of spells, but they are normally considered to do what they say - which means in the case of a Passwall: Yes, they can make a hole in the floor. However...


            2. When applied to the floor, the dimensions would remain being transfigured to the "new plane" as a hole "up to 5 feet wide" (approx 18 inches to either side of your (character's) body and 8 feet long (the "new plane's" conversion of tall) and 20 feet deep (which means deep in any direction the resultant hole is facing), thus causing 2d6 of falling damage to anyone who falls in, plus (possible) crushing damage to the bottom ones if more than 2 should fall in if it is cast "in front of" charging enemies.


            3. As for "saving throws", it would depend on the person running the campaign or scenario. The people I played with have said yes, because spells are not instantaneous; they requires voice and or hand/wand gestures (and sometimes use of ingredients) to cast, and therefore any "practiced adventurer" (over 1st level) who has seen spells cast, and especially spellcasters, would recognize that one was being cast and act to dodge away from the area it seemed to be aimed towards, or even act to counter if that is used in the particular game, and would therefore get a "Reflex Save" to see if they accomplished their chosen action in time.


            4. And as a last "tidbit" to think about: while the hole created will spit them back out "when it ends", the spell doesn't say you can not throw "room furnishings" on top of those in the pit to help ensure not only more damage but less of a chance of them climbing out if there is enough available, such as in the "dining hall" or armory of a castle. Being "pinned" by several hundred pounds of furniture or weapons should make getting out a lot harder, if you don't care to stand around shooting "fish-in-a-barrel" while they are stuck. Or dump in a couple of barrels of oil and a torch to keep them toasty warm while you avoid any friends of theirs in the area.







            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            Bunnie Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.






            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. There are no such things as "Reflex saves" in D&D 5e; are you getting the terminology confused with a different system?
              $endgroup$
              – V2Blast
              47 mins ago
















            -1












            $begingroup$

            Several things occur to me from a lengthy amount of time playing D&D (about 15 years starting in the mid-1970s on "tabletop" and continuing electronically today).




            1. The GM/DM (or whatever) is the ultimate adjudicator in the use of spells, but they are normally considered to do what they say - which means in the case of a Passwall: Yes, they can make a hole in the floor. However...


            2. When applied to the floor, the dimensions would remain being transfigured to the "new plane" as a hole "up to 5 feet wide" (approx 18 inches to either side of your (character's) body and 8 feet long (the "new plane's" conversion of tall) and 20 feet deep (which means deep in any direction the resultant hole is facing), thus causing 2d6 of falling damage to anyone who falls in, plus (possible) crushing damage to the bottom ones if more than 2 should fall in if it is cast "in front of" charging enemies.


            3. As for "saving throws", it would depend on the person running the campaign or scenario. The people I played with have said yes, because spells are not instantaneous; they requires voice and or hand/wand gestures (and sometimes use of ingredients) to cast, and therefore any "practiced adventurer" (over 1st level) who has seen spells cast, and especially spellcasters, would recognize that one was being cast and act to dodge away from the area it seemed to be aimed towards, or even act to counter if that is used in the particular game, and would therefore get a "Reflex Save" to see if they accomplished their chosen action in time.


            4. And as a last "tidbit" to think about: while the hole created will spit them back out "when it ends", the spell doesn't say you can not throw "room furnishings" on top of those in the pit to help ensure not only more damage but less of a chance of them climbing out if there is enough available, such as in the "dining hall" or armory of a castle. Being "pinned" by several hundred pounds of furniture or weapons should make getting out a lot harder, if you don't care to stand around shooting "fish-in-a-barrel" while they are stuck. Or dump in a couple of barrels of oil and a torch to keep them toasty warm while you avoid any friends of theirs in the area.







            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            Bunnie Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.






            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. There are no such things as "Reflex saves" in D&D 5e; are you getting the terminology confused with a different system?
              $endgroup$
              – V2Blast
              47 mins ago














            -1












            -1








            -1





            $begingroup$

            Several things occur to me from a lengthy amount of time playing D&D (about 15 years starting in the mid-1970s on "tabletop" and continuing electronically today).




            1. The GM/DM (or whatever) is the ultimate adjudicator in the use of spells, but they are normally considered to do what they say - which means in the case of a Passwall: Yes, they can make a hole in the floor. However...


            2. When applied to the floor, the dimensions would remain being transfigured to the "new plane" as a hole "up to 5 feet wide" (approx 18 inches to either side of your (character's) body and 8 feet long (the "new plane's" conversion of tall) and 20 feet deep (which means deep in any direction the resultant hole is facing), thus causing 2d6 of falling damage to anyone who falls in, plus (possible) crushing damage to the bottom ones if more than 2 should fall in if it is cast "in front of" charging enemies.


            3. As for "saving throws", it would depend on the person running the campaign or scenario. The people I played with have said yes, because spells are not instantaneous; they requires voice and or hand/wand gestures (and sometimes use of ingredients) to cast, and therefore any "practiced adventurer" (over 1st level) who has seen spells cast, and especially spellcasters, would recognize that one was being cast and act to dodge away from the area it seemed to be aimed towards, or even act to counter if that is used in the particular game, and would therefore get a "Reflex Save" to see if they accomplished their chosen action in time.


            4. And as a last "tidbit" to think about: while the hole created will spit them back out "when it ends", the spell doesn't say you can not throw "room furnishings" on top of those in the pit to help ensure not only more damage but less of a chance of them climbing out if there is enough available, such as in the "dining hall" or armory of a castle. Being "pinned" by several hundred pounds of furniture or weapons should make getting out a lot harder, if you don't care to stand around shooting "fish-in-a-barrel" while they are stuck. Or dump in a couple of barrels of oil and a torch to keep them toasty warm while you avoid any friends of theirs in the area.







            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            Bunnie Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.






            $endgroup$



            Several things occur to me from a lengthy amount of time playing D&D (about 15 years starting in the mid-1970s on "tabletop" and continuing electronically today).




            1. The GM/DM (or whatever) is the ultimate adjudicator in the use of spells, but they are normally considered to do what they say - which means in the case of a Passwall: Yes, they can make a hole in the floor. However...


            2. When applied to the floor, the dimensions would remain being transfigured to the "new plane" as a hole "up to 5 feet wide" (approx 18 inches to either side of your (character's) body and 8 feet long (the "new plane's" conversion of tall) and 20 feet deep (which means deep in any direction the resultant hole is facing), thus causing 2d6 of falling damage to anyone who falls in, plus (possible) crushing damage to the bottom ones if more than 2 should fall in if it is cast "in front of" charging enemies.


            3. As for "saving throws", it would depend on the person running the campaign or scenario. The people I played with have said yes, because spells are not instantaneous; they requires voice and or hand/wand gestures (and sometimes use of ingredients) to cast, and therefore any "practiced adventurer" (over 1st level) who has seen spells cast, and especially spellcasters, would recognize that one was being cast and act to dodge away from the area it seemed to be aimed towards, or even act to counter if that is used in the particular game, and would therefore get a "Reflex Save" to see if they accomplished their chosen action in time.


            4. And as a last "tidbit" to think about: while the hole created will spit them back out "when it ends", the spell doesn't say you can not throw "room furnishings" on top of those in the pit to help ensure not only more damage but less of a chance of them climbing out if there is enough available, such as in the "dining hall" or armory of a castle. Being "pinned" by several hundred pounds of furniture or weapons should make getting out a lot harder, if you don't care to stand around shooting "fish-in-a-barrel" while they are stuck. Or dump in a couple of barrels of oil and a torch to keep them toasty warm while you avoid any friends of theirs in the area.








            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            Bunnie Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.









            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 47 mins ago









            V2Blast

            27.5k596166




            27.5k596166






            New contributor




            Bunnie Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.









            answered 51 mins ago









            Bunnie MillerBunnie Miller

            1




            1




            New contributor




            Bunnie Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.





            New contributor





            Bunnie Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.






            Bunnie Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.












            • $begingroup$
              Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. There are no such things as "Reflex saves" in D&D 5e; are you getting the terminology confused with a different system?
              $endgroup$
              – V2Blast
              47 mins ago


















            • $begingroup$
              Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. There are no such things as "Reflex saves" in D&D 5e; are you getting the terminology confused with a different system?
              $endgroup$
              – V2Blast
              47 mins ago
















            $begingroup$
            Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. There are no such things as "Reflex saves" in D&D 5e; are you getting the terminology confused with a different system?
            $endgroup$
            – V2Blast
            47 mins ago




            $begingroup$
            Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. There are no such things as "Reflex saves" in D&D 5e; are you getting the terminology confused with a different system?
            $endgroup$
            – V2Blast
            47 mins ago


















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