Why did Democrats in the Senate oppose the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act?How does the Patient...

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Why did Democrats in the Senate oppose the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act?


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5















The U.S. Senate recently voted to block the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act, which in the words of the bill itself would prohibit




a health care practitioner from failing to exercise the proper degree of care in the case of a child who survives an abortion or attempted abortion.




Fox News reports that the bill was blocked by Democrats in the Senate, including all of the Democrats currently running for president in 2020 (I could not find any coverage of this vote on CNN). The Fox News article mostly discussed the Republican support for the bill, but it does have some information about why Democrats opposed it:




Opponents, noting the rarity of such births and citing laws already making it a crime to kill newborn babies, said the bill was unnecessary. They said it was part of a push by abortion opponents to curb access to the procedure and intimidate doctors who perform it, and said late-term abortions generally occur when the infant is considered incapable of surviving after birth.



“This bill is just another line of attack in the ongoing war on women’s health,” New Hampshire Democratic Sen. Jeanne Shaheen said on the Senate floor.



...Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., objected to Sasse's bill, saying the legislation was unnecessary and amounted to a political stunt.




However, the article also recalls recent actions by Democrats such as Virginia Governor Ralph Northam and Virginia Delegate Kathy Tran, the latter of whom sponsored a state bill to allow third-trimester abortions and the former of whom endorsed it by saying




"When we talk about third-trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of, obviously, the mother, with the consent of the physicians, more than one physician, by the way," Northam said. "And, it's done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that's non-viable."



Northam continued: "So, in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother. So, I think this was really blown out of proportion."




The Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act seems to have been introduced at least in part in response to the suggestion that a live infant who survived a late-term abortion might not be resuscitated.



If Democrats at the state level are introducing legislation to allow late-term abortions then why are Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that this regulation of such abortions is unnecessary? Is this a just a disconnect between Democrats at the state and federal levels?



I'm also not sure what Senator Shaheen's comment about "women’s health" has to do with the bill, since the law deals with infants who have already been born. Additionally, the law would prohibit prosecution of the mother who sought the abortion and allow the mother to obtain "appropriate relief" in a civil action against the physician who violated the law (e.g. "statutory damages equal to 3 times the cost of the abortion or attempted abortion").



Have any senators who voted against the bill provided a detailed argument for their opposition to the bill beyond the sound bites quoted above?










share|improve this question




















  • 3





    "Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that such abortions do not need to be regulated" - What? No one is advocating that late-term abortions do not need to be regulated. Democrats see this proposed law as one that's as silly as a law that would require doctors to treat a dementia patient for every physical ailment they have after they've lost all faculties. It takes medical decision making away from the people close to the situation who care and puts it in the hands of lawmakers for purely religious reasons.

    – Bryan Krause
    3 hours ago













  • @BryanKrause One of the stated arguments against this bill is that late-term abortions are so rare that the regulations in the bill are unnecessary. That doesn't mean that all regulation is opposed but it does mean that this proposed regulation is opposed. I'll tweak the wording.

    – Null
    3 hours ago






  • 2





    You already provided quotes that explain the reasoning which goes beyond being "so rare" - I don't think your question is genuine. Democrats don't want a law that prevents a pregnant woman from terminating a non-viable pregnancy or putting doctors at legal risk for doing so.

    – Bryan Krause
    3 hours ago








  • 2





    @BryanKrause I am asking for reasoning which goes beyond the sound bites provided, and which come from an article from a source that leans right-wing. As I mentioned, I could not find coverage on the more left-leaning CNN which might provide a better explanation of the opposition to the bill.

    – Null
    3 hours ago
















5















The U.S. Senate recently voted to block the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act, which in the words of the bill itself would prohibit




a health care practitioner from failing to exercise the proper degree of care in the case of a child who survives an abortion or attempted abortion.




Fox News reports that the bill was blocked by Democrats in the Senate, including all of the Democrats currently running for president in 2020 (I could not find any coverage of this vote on CNN). The Fox News article mostly discussed the Republican support for the bill, but it does have some information about why Democrats opposed it:




Opponents, noting the rarity of such births and citing laws already making it a crime to kill newborn babies, said the bill was unnecessary. They said it was part of a push by abortion opponents to curb access to the procedure and intimidate doctors who perform it, and said late-term abortions generally occur when the infant is considered incapable of surviving after birth.



“This bill is just another line of attack in the ongoing war on women’s health,” New Hampshire Democratic Sen. Jeanne Shaheen said on the Senate floor.



...Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., objected to Sasse's bill, saying the legislation was unnecessary and amounted to a political stunt.




However, the article also recalls recent actions by Democrats such as Virginia Governor Ralph Northam and Virginia Delegate Kathy Tran, the latter of whom sponsored a state bill to allow third-trimester abortions and the former of whom endorsed it by saying




"When we talk about third-trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of, obviously, the mother, with the consent of the physicians, more than one physician, by the way," Northam said. "And, it's done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that's non-viable."



Northam continued: "So, in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother. So, I think this was really blown out of proportion."




The Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act seems to have been introduced at least in part in response to the suggestion that a live infant who survived a late-term abortion might not be resuscitated.



If Democrats at the state level are introducing legislation to allow late-term abortions then why are Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that this regulation of such abortions is unnecessary? Is this a just a disconnect between Democrats at the state and federal levels?



I'm also not sure what Senator Shaheen's comment about "women’s health" has to do with the bill, since the law deals with infants who have already been born. Additionally, the law would prohibit prosecution of the mother who sought the abortion and allow the mother to obtain "appropriate relief" in a civil action against the physician who violated the law (e.g. "statutory damages equal to 3 times the cost of the abortion or attempted abortion").



Have any senators who voted against the bill provided a detailed argument for their opposition to the bill beyond the sound bites quoted above?










share|improve this question




















  • 3





    "Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that such abortions do not need to be regulated" - What? No one is advocating that late-term abortions do not need to be regulated. Democrats see this proposed law as one that's as silly as a law that would require doctors to treat a dementia patient for every physical ailment they have after they've lost all faculties. It takes medical decision making away from the people close to the situation who care and puts it in the hands of lawmakers for purely religious reasons.

    – Bryan Krause
    3 hours ago













  • @BryanKrause One of the stated arguments against this bill is that late-term abortions are so rare that the regulations in the bill are unnecessary. That doesn't mean that all regulation is opposed but it does mean that this proposed regulation is opposed. I'll tweak the wording.

    – Null
    3 hours ago






  • 2





    You already provided quotes that explain the reasoning which goes beyond being "so rare" - I don't think your question is genuine. Democrats don't want a law that prevents a pregnant woman from terminating a non-viable pregnancy or putting doctors at legal risk for doing so.

    – Bryan Krause
    3 hours ago








  • 2





    @BryanKrause I am asking for reasoning which goes beyond the sound bites provided, and which come from an article from a source that leans right-wing. As I mentioned, I could not find coverage on the more left-leaning CNN which might provide a better explanation of the opposition to the bill.

    – Null
    3 hours ago














5












5








5








The U.S. Senate recently voted to block the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act, which in the words of the bill itself would prohibit




a health care practitioner from failing to exercise the proper degree of care in the case of a child who survives an abortion or attempted abortion.




Fox News reports that the bill was blocked by Democrats in the Senate, including all of the Democrats currently running for president in 2020 (I could not find any coverage of this vote on CNN). The Fox News article mostly discussed the Republican support for the bill, but it does have some information about why Democrats opposed it:




Opponents, noting the rarity of such births and citing laws already making it a crime to kill newborn babies, said the bill was unnecessary. They said it was part of a push by abortion opponents to curb access to the procedure and intimidate doctors who perform it, and said late-term abortions generally occur when the infant is considered incapable of surviving after birth.



“This bill is just another line of attack in the ongoing war on women’s health,” New Hampshire Democratic Sen. Jeanne Shaheen said on the Senate floor.



...Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., objected to Sasse's bill, saying the legislation was unnecessary and amounted to a political stunt.




However, the article also recalls recent actions by Democrats such as Virginia Governor Ralph Northam and Virginia Delegate Kathy Tran, the latter of whom sponsored a state bill to allow third-trimester abortions and the former of whom endorsed it by saying




"When we talk about third-trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of, obviously, the mother, with the consent of the physicians, more than one physician, by the way," Northam said. "And, it's done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that's non-viable."



Northam continued: "So, in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother. So, I think this was really blown out of proportion."




The Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act seems to have been introduced at least in part in response to the suggestion that a live infant who survived a late-term abortion might not be resuscitated.



If Democrats at the state level are introducing legislation to allow late-term abortions then why are Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that this regulation of such abortions is unnecessary? Is this a just a disconnect between Democrats at the state and federal levels?



I'm also not sure what Senator Shaheen's comment about "women’s health" has to do with the bill, since the law deals with infants who have already been born. Additionally, the law would prohibit prosecution of the mother who sought the abortion and allow the mother to obtain "appropriate relief" in a civil action against the physician who violated the law (e.g. "statutory damages equal to 3 times the cost of the abortion or attempted abortion").



Have any senators who voted against the bill provided a detailed argument for their opposition to the bill beyond the sound bites quoted above?










share|improve this question
















The U.S. Senate recently voted to block the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act, which in the words of the bill itself would prohibit




a health care practitioner from failing to exercise the proper degree of care in the case of a child who survives an abortion or attempted abortion.




Fox News reports that the bill was blocked by Democrats in the Senate, including all of the Democrats currently running for president in 2020 (I could not find any coverage of this vote on CNN). The Fox News article mostly discussed the Republican support for the bill, but it does have some information about why Democrats opposed it:




Opponents, noting the rarity of such births and citing laws already making it a crime to kill newborn babies, said the bill was unnecessary. They said it was part of a push by abortion opponents to curb access to the procedure and intimidate doctors who perform it, and said late-term abortions generally occur when the infant is considered incapable of surviving after birth.



“This bill is just another line of attack in the ongoing war on women’s health,” New Hampshire Democratic Sen. Jeanne Shaheen said on the Senate floor.



...Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., objected to Sasse's bill, saying the legislation was unnecessary and amounted to a political stunt.




However, the article also recalls recent actions by Democrats such as Virginia Governor Ralph Northam and Virginia Delegate Kathy Tran, the latter of whom sponsored a state bill to allow third-trimester abortions and the former of whom endorsed it by saying




"When we talk about third-trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of, obviously, the mother, with the consent of the physicians, more than one physician, by the way," Northam said. "And, it's done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that's non-viable."



Northam continued: "So, in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother. So, I think this was really blown out of proportion."




The Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act seems to have been introduced at least in part in response to the suggestion that a live infant who survived a late-term abortion might not be resuscitated.



If Democrats at the state level are introducing legislation to allow late-term abortions then why are Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that this regulation of such abortions is unnecessary? Is this a just a disconnect between Democrats at the state and federal levels?



I'm also not sure what Senator Shaheen's comment about "women’s health" has to do with the bill, since the law deals with infants who have already been born. Additionally, the law would prohibit prosecution of the mother who sought the abortion and allow the mother to obtain "appropriate relief" in a civil action against the physician who violated the law (e.g. "statutory damages equal to 3 times the cost of the abortion or attempted abortion").



Have any senators who voted against the bill provided a detailed argument for their opposition to the bill beyond the sound bites quoted above?







united-states democratic-party abortion






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 2 hours ago









Machavity

17.1k45383




17.1k45383










asked 3 hours ago









NullNull

313413




313413








  • 3





    "Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that such abortions do not need to be regulated" - What? No one is advocating that late-term abortions do not need to be regulated. Democrats see this proposed law as one that's as silly as a law that would require doctors to treat a dementia patient for every physical ailment they have after they've lost all faculties. It takes medical decision making away from the people close to the situation who care and puts it in the hands of lawmakers for purely religious reasons.

    – Bryan Krause
    3 hours ago













  • @BryanKrause One of the stated arguments against this bill is that late-term abortions are so rare that the regulations in the bill are unnecessary. That doesn't mean that all regulation is opposed but it does mean that this proposed regulation is opposed. I'll tweak the wording.

    – Null
    3 hours ago






  • 2





    You already provided quotes that explain the reasoning which goes beyond being "so rare" - I don't think your question is genuine. Democrats don't want a law that prevents a pregnant woman from terminating a non-viable pregnancy or putting doctors at legal risk for doing so.

    – Bryan Krause
    3 hours ago








  • 2





    @BryanKrause I am asking for reasoning which goes beyond the sound bites provided, and which come from an article from a source that leans right-wing. As I mentioned, I could not find coverage on the more left-leaning CNN which might provide a better explanation of the opposition to the bill.

    – Null
    3 hours ago














  • 3





    "Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that such abortions do not need to be regulated" - What? No one is advocating that late-term abortions do not need to be regulated. Democrats see this proposed law as one that's as silly as a law that would require doctors to treat a dementia patient for every physical ailment they have after they've lost all faculties. It takes medical decision making away from the people close to the situation who care and puts it in the hands of lawmakers for purely religious reasons.

    – Bryan Krause
    3 hours ago













  • @BryanKrause One of the stated arguments against this bill is that late-term abortions are so rare that the regulations in the bill are unnecessary. That doesn't mean that all regulation is opposed but it does mean that this proposed regulation is opposed. I'll tweak the wording.

    – Null
    3 hours ago






  • 2





    You already provided quotes that explain the reasoning which goes beyond being "so rare" - I don't think your question is genuine. Democrats don't want a law that prevents a pregnant woman from terminating a non-viable pregnancy or putting doctors at legal risk for doing so.

    – Bryan Krause
    3 hours ago








  • 2





    @BryanKrause I am asking for reasoning which goes beyond the sound bites provided, and which come from an article from a source that leans right-wing. As I mentioned, I could not find coverage on the more left-leaning CNN which might provide a better explanation of the opposition to the bill.

    – Null
    3 hours ago








3




3





"Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that such abortions do not need to be regulated" - What? No one is advocating that late-term abortions do not need to be regulated. Democrats see this proposed law as one that's as silly as a law that would require doctors to treat a dementia patient for every physical ailment they have after they've lost all faculties. It takes medical decision making away from the people close to the situation who care and puts it in the hands of lawmakers for purely religious reasons.

– Bryan Krause
3 hours ago







"Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that such abortions do not need to be regulated" - What? No one is advocating that late-term abortions do not need to be regulated. Democrats see this proposed law as one that's as silly as a law that would require doctors to treat a dementia patient for every physical ailment they have after they've lost all faculties. It takes medical decision making away from the people close to the situation who care and puts it in the hands of lawmakers for purely religious reasons.

– Bryan Krause
3 hours ago















@BryanKrause One of the stated arguments against this bill is that late-term abortions are so rare that the regulations in the bill are unnecessary. That doesn't mean that all regulation is opposed but it does mean that this proposed regulation is opposed. I'll tweak the wording.

– Null
3 hours ago





@BryanKrause One of the stated arguments against this bill is that late-term abortions are so rare that the regulations in the bill are unnecessary. That doesn't mean that all regulation is opposed but it does mean that this proposed regulation is opposed. I'll tweak the wording.

– Null
3 hours ago




2




2





You already provided quotes that explain the reasoning which goes beyond being "so rare" - I don't think your question is genuine. Democrats don't want a law that prevents a pregnant woman from terminating a non-viable pregnancy or putting doctors at legal risk for doing so.

– Bryan Krause
3 hours ago







You already provided quotes that explain the reasoning which goes beyond being "so rare" - I don't think your question is genuine. Democrats don't want a law that prevents a pregnant woman from terminating a non-viable pregnancy or putting doctors at legal risk for doing so.

– Bryan Krause
3 hours ago






2




2





@BryanKrause I am asking for reasoning which goes beyond the sound bites provided, and which come from an article from a source that leans right-wing. As I mentioned, I could not find coverage on the more left-leaning CNN which might provide a better explanation of the opposition to the bill.

– Null
3 hours ago





@BryanKrause I am asking for reasoning which goes beyond the sound bites provided, and which come from an article from a source that leans right-wing. As I mentioned, I could not find coverage on the more left-leaning CNN which might provide a better explanation of the opposition to the bill.

– Null
3 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















8














Technically infanticide is already illegal



Roe v Wade legalized abortion. Technically, you cannot abort a fetus once it has left the mother and Federal law prohibits it. Kermit Gosnell, a late term abortionist, was charged with (but not convicted of) one count of infanticide, an assertion by members of his staff (testifying against him) that some fetuses from late term abortions were still moving, and Gosnell murdered them.



Sen Tim Kaine stated




Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), who is Catholic, released a statement after the vote saying he opposed the bill because GOP statements about it are "misleading."



"Congress reaffirmed that fact with its passage of the bipartisan Born-Alive Infants Protection Act in 2002. I support that law, which is still in effect. There is no need for additional federal legislation on this topic," Kaine said.




Democrats fear it will lead to undue abortion provider scrutiny



Sen Chuck Schumer said this




Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) said on the Senate floor that the born-alive bill “is carefully crafted to target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers.” He also claimed the bill “would impose requirements on what type of care doctors must provide in certain circumstances, even if that care is ineffective, contradictory to medical evidence, and against the family’s wishes.”




Democrats may feel it might be part of a broader push



From Vox




The bill may also be part of a larger strategy by Republicans of focusing on very late abortions in order to drum up support among social conservatives. Trump referenced the issue in his State of the Union speech, saying, “we had the case of the governor of Virginia where he basically stated he would execute a baby after birth.”







share|improve this answer
























  • This is a good write-up, +1. Kaine's argument seems the strongest to me but Schumer's seems very weak (perhaps because it's from an article which portrays him negatively). I don't see how the law would "target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers" as Schumer claims -- I've read the whole bill and it mentions hospitals alongside abortion providers. Did Schumer go into any more detail to explain his assertion?

    – Null
    2 hours ago











  • Quotes on this are surprisingly hard to come by. You already have Sen Murray's quote, and that's what most writers have run with

    – Machavity
    1 hour ago











  • I see. Unfortunately, it's often hard to get much more than sound bites out of politicians.

    – Null
    1 hour ago











  • The linked National Review article points out that clinics would have to provide "the same degree" of care at the same gestation period. This could be substantial, especially supporting premature births. That makes it sound like this law was crafted with the same intent as the recently decided Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstedt -- to add unnecessary burdens to clinics forcing them to shut down. (Some part of this might be worth mentioning to tie together the 2nd and 3rd point)

    – BurnsBA
    39 mins ago



















-2














As you described, there appears to be a disconnect in the stated late-term abortion views between the state-level Democrats in Virginia and federal-level Democrats in Washington. Interestingly, however, in reading your question, that's not the primary disconnect in my view.



The bigger and more meaningful division, as I see it, is between the Republicans backing the bill (who are talking about newborn babies) and the Democrats (who are still talking about abortion). The bill does not appear to be about abortion, but about human beings outside the womb.



So, taking into consideration that infanticide is already illegal, this bill may be pure political strategy by pro-life Republicans, who see an opportunity after the highly-publicized, "pro-infanticide" comments of Virginia's governor Ralph Northam and delegate Kathy Tran, to portray Democrats as so extreme on abortion that they even advocate for the destruction of newborn babies. This entire action may be political strategy to gain an edge in the 2020 general elections.



Because this bill does not directly involve abortion, but it is a tangential issue and has the word "abortion" in the title, it's politically difficult for Democrats, who receive major support from abortion advocates, to support it. In fact, for political purposes alone, it's very difficult for Democrats to support any legislation that (even remotely) suggests restrictions on abortion. If they don't oppose restrictions they risk losing campaign funding and sparking a primary challenge.



In terms of the Democratic presidential candidates, supporting this bill would be tantamount to campaign suicide. Any candidate who supports this bill, which would put them in alliance with pro-life Republicans, would be giving their primary opponents, and their media critics, the ability to characterize them as "weak on choice" or "less pro-choice than me". Therefore, all candidates must oppose the bill in order to remain... viable.



Because of the widespread support for abortion rights in the Democratic party, the presidential candidates have no downside risk in opposing this legislation today. But this vote may come back to haunt the nominee in the general election, where the electorate is more centrist than primary voters in both major parties. That seems to be the overall Republican play here.






share|improve this answer





















  • 1





    This is a good explanation of the Republican strategy behind the bill, but aside from the fact that Democrats "receive major support from abortion advocates" I don't see why Democrats would oppose a bill which only deals with abortion as a "tangential" issue. Wouldn't the presidential candidates want to avoid being accused of supporting infanticide (the Republican charge) just as much as they'd want to avoid being characterized as "weak on choice"?

    – Null
    1 hour ago











  • -1 There is no disconnect. This bill criminalizes something that is already illegal, and doesn't conflict with the VA bill in any way. It's a show vote from Republicans to keep the scare-word "abortion" in the news, and that's all it is.

    – Geobits
    1 hour ago








  • 1





    @Null, I refer you to governor Northam. He wasn't attacked by his own side for his abortion views. He was attacked for wearing racist costumes in grad school.

    – Michael_B
    1 hour ago






  • 1





    @Null With a crowded field, the presidential candidates have to survive the primary first before even worrying about what Republicans say or think. By taking hard stances on controversial issues they hope to set themselves apart from the other Democratic candidates, from which one of them will most likely pivot back towards the center after securing the nomination.

    – Jeff Lambert
    1 hour ago






  • 2





    I do see a disconnect, and agree with the OP on that. However, you're right, it may not be "obvious" and is open to interpretation. So I've amended my answer. But I don't think this is just R's catering to their base. This is designed for a more broad-based appeal in my view. Thanks for the feedback. @Geobits

    – Michael_B
    1 hour ago













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8














Technically infanticide is already illegal



Roe v Wade legalized abortion. Technically, you cannot abort a fetus once it has left the mother and Federal law prohibits it. Kermit Gosnell, a late term abortionist, was charged with (but not convicted of) one count of infanticide, an assertion by members of his staff (testifying against him) that some fetuses from late term abortions were still moving, and Gosnell murdered them.



Sen Tim Kaine stated




Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), who is Catholic, released a statement after the vote saying he opposed the bill because GOP statements about it are "misleading."



"Congress reaffirmed that fact with its passage of the bipartisan Born-Alive Infants Protection Act in 2002. I support that law, which is still in effect. There is no need for additional federal legislation on this topic," Kaine said.




Democrats fear it will lead to undue abortion provider scrutiny



Sen Chuck Schumer said this




Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) said on the Senate floor that the born-alive bill “is carefully crafted to target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers.” He also claimed the bill “would impose requirements on what type of care doctors must provide in certain circumstances, even if that care is ineffective, contradictory to medical evidence, and against the family’s wishes.”




Democrats may feel it might be part of a broader push



From Vox




The bill may also be part of a larger strategy by Republicans of focusing on very late abortions in order to drum up support among social conservatives. Trump referenced the issue in his State of the Union speech, saying, “we had the case of the governor of Virginia where he basically stated he would execute a baby after birth.”







share|improve this answer
























  • This is a good write-up, +1. Kaine's argument seems the strongest to me but Schumer's seems very weak (perhaps because it's from an article which portrays him negatively). I don't see how the law would "target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers" as Schumer claims -- I've read the whole bill and it mentions hospitals alongside abortion providers. Did Schumer go into any more detail to explain his assertion?

    – Null
    2 hours ago











  • Quotes on this are surprisingly hard to come by. You already have Sen Murray's quote, and that's what most writers have run with

    – Machavity
    1 hour ago











  • I see. Unfortunately, it's often hard to get much more than sound bites out of politicians.

    – Null
    1 hour ago











  • The linked National Review article points out that clinics would have to provide "the same degree" of care at the same gestation period. This could be substantial, especially supporting premature births. That makes it sound like this law was crafted with the same intent as the recently decided Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstedt -- to add unnecessary burdens to clinics forcing them to shut down. (Some part of this might be worth mentioning to tie together the 2nd and 3rd point)

    – BurnsBA
    39 mins ago
















8














Technically infanticide is already illegal



Roe v Wade legalized abortion. Technically, you cannot abort a fetus once it has left the mother and Federal law prohibits it. Kermit Gosnell, a late term abortionist, was charged with (but not convicted of) one count of infanticide, an assertion by members of his staff (testifying against him) that some fetuses from late term abortions were still moving, and Gosnell murdered them.



Sen Tim Kaine stated




Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), who is Catholic, released a statement after the vote saying he opposed the bill because GOP statements about it are "misleading."



"Congress reaffirmed that fact with its passage of the bipartisan Born-Alive Infants Protection Act in 2002. I support that law, which is still in effect. There is no need for additional federal legislation on this topic," Kaine said.




Democrats fear it will lead to undue abortion provider scrutiny



Sen Chuck Schumer said this




Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) said on the Senate floor that the born-alive bill “is carefully crafted to target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers.” He also claimed the bill “would impose requirements on what type of care doctors must provide in certain circumstances, even if that care is ineffective, contradictory to medical evidence, and against the family’s wishes.”




Democrats may feel it might be part of a broader push



From Vox




The bill may also be part of a larger strategy by Republicans of focusing on very late abortions in order to drum up support among social conservatives. Trump referenced the issue in his State of the Union speech, saying, “we had the case of the governor of Virginia where he basically stated he would execute a baby after birth.”







share|improve this answer
























  • This is a good write-up, +1. Kaine's argument seems the strongest to me but Schumer's seems very weak (perhaps because it's from an article which portrays him negatively). I don't see how the law would "target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers" as Schumer claims -- I've read the whole bill and it mentions hospitals alongside abortion providers. Did Schumer go into any more detail to explain his assertion?

    – Null
    2 hours ago











  • Quotes on this are surprisingly hard to come by. You already have Sen Murray's quote, and that's what most writers have run with

    – Machavity
    1 hour ago











  • I see. Unfortunately, it's often hard to get much more than sound bites out of politicians.

    – Null
    1 hour ago











  • The linked National Review article points out that clinics would have to provide "the same degree" of care at the same gestation period. This could be substantial, especially supporting premature births. That makes it sound like this law was crafted with the same intent as the recently decided Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstedt -- to add unnecessary burdens to clinics forcing them to shut down. (Some part of this might be worth mentioning to tie together the 2nd and 3rd point)

    – BurnsBA
    39 mins ago














8












8








8







Technically infanticide is already illegal



Roe v Wade legalized abortion. Technically, you cannot abort a fetus once it has left the mother and Federal law prohibits it. Kermit Gosnell, a late term abortionist, was charged with (but not convicted of) one count of infanticide, an assertion by members of his staff (testifying against him) that some fetuses from late term abortions were still moving, and Gosnell murdered them.



Sen Tim Kaine stated




Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), who is Catholic, released a statement after the vote saying he opposed the bill because GOP statements about it are "misleading."



"Congress reaffirmed that fact with its passage of the bipartisan Born-Alive Infants Protection Act in 2002. I support that law, which is still in effect. There is no need for additional federal legislation on this topic," Kaine said.




Democrats fear it will lead to undue abortion provider scrutiny



Sen Chuck Schumer said this




Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) said on the Senate floor that the born-alive bill “is carefully crafted to target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers.” He also claimed the bill “would impose requirements on what type of care doctors must provide in certain circumstances, even if that care is ineffective, contradictory to medical evidence, and against the family’s wishes.”




Democrats may feel it might be part of a broader push



From Vox




The bill may also be part of a larger strategy by Republicans of focusing on very late abortions in order to drum up support among social conservatives. Trump referenced the issue in his State of the Union speech, saying, “we had the case of the governor of Virginia where he basically stated he would execute a baby after birth.”







share|improve this answer













Technically infanticide is already illegal



Roe v Wade legalized abortion. Technically, you cannot abort a fetus once it has left the mother and Federal law prohibits it. Kermit Gosnell, a late term abortionist, was charged with (but not convicted of) one count of infanticide, an assertion by members of his staff (testifying against him) that some fetuses from late term abortions were still moving, and Gosnell murdered them.



Sen Tim Kaine stated




Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), who is Catholic, released a statement after the vote saying he opposed the bill because GOP statements about it are "misleading."



"Congress reaffirmed that fact with its passage of the bipartisan Born-Alive Infants Protection Act in 2002. I support that law, which is still in effect. There is no need for additional federal legislation on this topic," Kaine said.




Democrats fear it will lead to undue abortion provider scrutiny



Sen Chuck Schumer said this




Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) said on the Senate floor that the born-alive bill “is carefully crafted to target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers.” He also claimed the bill “would impose requirements on what type of care doctors must provide in certain circumstances, even if that care is ineffective, contradictory to medical evidence, and against the family’s wishes.”




Democrats may feel it might be part of a broader push



From Vox




The bill may also be part of a larger strategy by Republicans of focusing on very late abortions in order to drum up support among social conservatives. Trump referenced the issue in his State of the Union speech, saying, “we had the case of the governor of Virginia where he basically stated he would execute a baby after birth.”








share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 2 hours ago









MachavityMachavity

17.1k45383




17.1k45383













  • This is a good write-up, +1. Kaine's argument seems the strongest to me but Schumer's seems very weak (perhaps because it's from an article which portrays him negatively). I don't see how the law would "target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers" as Schumer claims -- I've read the whole bill and it mentions hospitals alongside abortion providers. Did Schumer go into any more detail to explain his assertion?

    – Null
    2 hours ago











  • Quotes on this are surprisingly hard to come by. You already have Sen Murray's quote, and that's what most writers have run with

    – Machavity
    1 hour ago











  • I see. Unfortunately, it's often hard to get much more than sound bites out of politicians.

    – Null
    1 hour ago











  • The linked National Review article points out that clinics would have to provide "the same degree" of care at the same gestation period. This could be substantial, especially supporting premature births. That makes it sound like this law was crafted with the same intent as the recently decided Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstedt -- to add unnecessary burdens to clinics forcing them to shut down. (Some part of this might be worth mentioning to tie together the 2nd and 3rd point)

    – BurnsBA
    39 mins ago



















  • This is a good write-up, +1. Kaine's argument seems the strongest to me but Schumer's seems very weak (perhaps because it's from an article which portrays him negatively). I don't see how the law would "target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers" as Schumer claims -- I've read the whole bill and it mentions hospitals alongside abortion providers. Did Schumer go into any more detail to explain his assertion?

    – Null
    2 hours ago











  • Quotes on this are surprisingly hard to come by. You already have Sen Murray's quote, and that's what most writers have run with

    – Machavity
    1 hour ago











  • I see. Unfortunately, it's often hard to get much more than sound bites out of politicians.

    – Null
    1 hour ago











  • The linked National Review article points out that clinics would have to provide "the same degree" of care at the same gestation period. This could be substantial, especially supporting premature births. That makes it sound like this law was crafted with the same intent as the recently decided Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstedt -- to add unnecessary burdens to clinics forcing them to shut down. (Some part of this might be worth mentioning to tie together the 2nd and 3rd point)

    – BurnsBA
    39 mins ago

















This is a good write-up, +1. Kaine's argument seems the strongest to me but Schumer's seems very weak (perhaps because it's from an article which portrays him negatively). I don't see how the law would "target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers" as Schumer claims -- I've read the whole bill and it mentions hospitals alongside abortion providers. Did Schumer go into any more detail to explain his assertion?

– Null
2 hours ago





This is a good write-up, +1. Kaine's argument seems the strongest to me but Schumer's seems very weak (perhaps because it's from an article which portrays him negatively). I don't see how the law would "target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers" as Schumer claims -- I've read the whole bill and it mentions hospitals alongside abortion providers. Did Schumer go into any more detail to explain his assertion?

– Null
2 hours ago













Quotes on this are surprisingly hard to come by. You already have Sen Murray's quote, and that's what most writers have run with

– Machavity
1 hour ago





Quotes on this are surprisingly hard to come by. You already have Sen Murray's quote, and that's what most writers have run with

– Machavity
1 hour ago













I see. Unfortunately, it's often hard to get much more than sound bites out of politicians.

– Null
1 hour ago





I see. Unfortunately, it's often hard to get much more than sound bites out of politicians.

– Null
1 hour ago













The linked National Review article points out that clinics would have to provide "the same degree" of care at the same gestation period. This could be substantial, especially supporting premature births. That makes it sound like this law was crafted with the same intent as the recently decided Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstedt -- to add unnecessary burdens to clinics forcing them to shut down. (Some part of this might be worth mentioning to tie together the 2nd and 3rd point)

– BurnsBA
39 mins ago





The linked National Review article points out that clinics would have to provide "the same degree" of care at the same gestation period. This could be substantial, especially supporting premature births. That makes it sound like this law was crafted with the same intent as the recently decided Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstedt -- to add unnecessary burdens to clinics forcing them to shut down. (Some part of this might be worth mentioning to tie together the 2nd and 3rd point)

– BurnsBA
39 mins ago











-2














As you described, there appears to be a disconnect in the stated late-term abortion views between the state-level Democrats in Virginia and federal-level Democrats in Washington. Interestingly, however, in reading your question, that's not the primary disconnect in my view.



The bigger and more meaningful division, as I see it, is between the Republicans backing the bill (who are talking about newborn babies) and the Democrats (who are still talking about abortion). The bill does not appear to be about abortion, but about human beings outside the womb.



So, taking into consideration that infanticide is already illegal, this bill may be pure political strategy by pro-life Republicans, who see an opportunity after the highly-publicized, "pro-infanticide" comments of Virginia's governor Ralph Northam and delegate Kathy Tran, to portray Democrats as so extreme on abortion that they even advocate for the destruction of newborn babies. This entire action may be political strategy to gain an edge in the 2020 general elections.



Because this bill does not directly involve abortion, but it is a tangential issue and has the word "abortion" in the title, it's politically difficult for Democrats, who receive major support from abortion advocates, to support it. In fact, for political purposes alone, it's very difficult for Democrats to support any legislation that (even remotely) suggests restrictions on abortion. If they don't oppose restrictions they risk losing campaign funding and sparking a primary challenge.



In terms of the Democratic presidential candidates, supporting this bill would be tantamount to campaign suicide. Any candidate who supports this bill, which would put them in alliance with pro-life Republicans, would be giving their primary opponents, and their media critics, the ability to characterize them as "weak on choice" or "less pro-choice than me". Therefore, all candidates must oppose the bill in order to remain... viable.



Because of the widespread support for abortion rights in the Democratic party, the presidential candidates have no downside risk in opposing this legislation today. But this vote may come back to haunt the nominee in the general election, where the electorate is more centrist than primary voters in both major parties. That seems to be the overall Republican play here.






share|improve this answer





















  • 1





    This is a good explanation of the Republican strategy behind the bill, but aside from the fact that Democrats "receive major support from abortion advocates" I don't see why Democrats would oppose a bill which only deals with abortion as a "tangential" issue. Wouldn't the presidential candidates want to avoid being accused of supporting infanticide (the Republican charge) just as much as they'd want to avoid being characterized as "weak on choice"?

    – Null
    1 hour ago











  • -1 There is no disconnect. This bill criminalizes something that is already illegal, and doesn't conflict with the VA bill in any way. It's a show vote from Republicans to keep the scare-word "abortion" in the news, and that's all it is.

    – Geobits
    1 hour ago








  • 1





    @Null, I refer you to governor Northam. He wasn't attacked by his own side for his abortion views. He was attacked for wearing racist costumes in grad school.

    – Michael_B
    1 hour ago






  • 1





    @Null With a crowded field, the presidential candidates have to survive the primary first before even worrying about what Republicans say or think. By taking hard stances on controversial issues they hope to set themselves apart from the other Democratic candidates, from which one of them will most likely pivot back towards the center after securing the nomination.

    – Jeff Lambert
    1 hour ago






  • 2





    I do see a disconnect, and agree with the OP on that. However, you're right, it may not be "obvious" and is open to interpretation. So I've amended my answer. But I don't think this is just R's catering to their base. This is designed for a more broad-based appeal in my view. Thanks for the feedback. @Geobits

    – Michael_B
    1 hour ago


















-2














As you described, there appears to be a disconnect in the stated late-term abortion views between the state-level Democrats in Virginia and federal-level Democrats in Washington. Interestingly, however, in reading your question, that's not the primary disconnect in my view.



The bigger and more meaningful division, as I see it, is between the Republicans backing the bill (who are talking about newborn babies) and the Democrats (who are still talking about abortion). The bill does not appear to be about abortion, but about human beings outside the womb.



So, taking into consideration that infanticide is already illegal, this bill may be pure political strategy by pro-life Republicans, who see an opportunity after the highly-publicized, "pro-infanticide" comments of Virginia's governor Ralph Northam and delegate Kathy Tran, to portray Democrats as so extreme on abortion that they even advocate for the destruction of newborn babies. This entire action may be political strategy to gain an edge in the 2020 general elections.



Because this bill does not directly involve abortion, but it is a tangential issue and has the word "abortion" in the title, it's politically difficult for Democrats, who receive major support from abortion advocates, to support it. In fact, for political purposes alone, it's very difficult for Democrats to support any legislation that (even remotely) suggests restrictions on abortion. If they don't oppose restrictions they risk losing campaign funding and sparking a primary challenge.



In terms of the Democratic presidential candidates, supporting this bill would be tantamount to campaign suicide. Any candidate who supports this bill, which would put them in alliance with pro-life Republicans, would be giving their primary opponents, and their media critics, the ability to characterize them as "weak on choice" or "less pro-choice than me". Therefore, all candidates must oppose the bill in order to remain... viable.



Because of the widespread support for abortion rights in the Democratic party, the presidential candidates have no downside risk in opposing this legislation today. But this vote may come back to haunt the nominee in the general election, where the electorate is more centrist than primary voters in both major parties. That seems to be the overall Republican play here.






share|improve this answer





















  • 1





    This is a good explanation of the Republican strategy behind the bill, but aside from the fact that Democrats "receive major support from abortion advocates" I don't see why Democrats would oppose a bill which only deals with abortion as a "tangential" issue. Wouldn't the presidential candidates want to avoid being accused of supporting infanticide (the Republican charge) just as much as they'd want to avoid being characterized as "weak on choice"?

    – Null
    1 hour ago











  • -1 There is no disconnect. This bill criminalizes something that is already illegal, and doesn't conflict with the VA bill in any way. It's a show vote from Republicans to keep the scare-word "abortion" in the news, and that's all it is.

    – Geobits
    1 hour ago








  • 1





    @Null, I refer you to governor Northam. He wasn't attacked by his own side for his abortion views. He was attacked for wearing racist costumes in grad school.

    – Michael_B
    1 hour ago






  • 1





    @Null With a crowded field, the presidential candidates have to survive the primary first before even worrying about what Republicans say or think. By taking hard stances on controversial issues they hope to set themselves apart from the other Democratic candidates, from which one of them will most likely pivot back towards the center after securing the nomination.

    – Jeff Lambert
    1 hour ago






  • 2





    I do see a disconnect, and agree with the OP on that. However, you're right, it may not be "obvious" and is open to interpretation. So I've amended my answer. But I don't think this is just R's catering to their base. This is designed for a more broad-based appeal in my view. Thanks for the feedback. @Geobits

    – Michael_B
    1 hour ago
















-2












-2








-2







As you described, there appears to be a disconnect in the stated late-term abortion views between the state-level Democrats in Virginia and federal-level Democrats in Washington. Interestingly, however, in reading your question, that's not the primary disconnect in my view.



The bigger and more meaningful division, as I see it, is between the Republicans backing the bill (who are talking about newborn babies) and the Democrats (who are still talking about abortion). The bill does not appear to be about abortion, but about human beings outside the womb.



So, taking into consideration that infanticide is already illegal, this bill may be pure political strategy by pro-life Republicans, who see an opportunity after the highly-publicized, "pro-infanticide" comments of Virginia's governor Ralph Northam and delegate Kathy Tran, to portray Democrats as so extreme on abortion that they even advocate for the destruction of newborn babies. This entire action may be political strategy to gain an edge in the 2020 general elections.



Because this bill does not directly involve abortion, but it is a tangential issue and has the word "abortion" in the title, it's politically difficult for Democrats, who receive major support from abortion advocates, to support it. In fact, for political purposes alone, it's very difficult for Democrats to support any legislation that (even remotely) suggests restrictions on abortion. If they don't oppose restrictions they risk losing campaign funding and sparking a primary challenge.



In terms of the Democratic presidential candidates, supporting this bill would be tantamount to campaign suicide. Any candidate who supports this bill, which would put them in alliance with pro-life Republicans, would be giving their primary opponents, and their media critics, the ability to characterize them as "weak on choice" or "less pro-choice than me". Therefore, all candidates must oppose the bill in order to remain... viable.



Because of the widespread support for abortion rights in the Democratic party, the presidential candidates have no downside risk in opposing this legislation today. But this vote may come back to haunt the nominee in the general election, where the electorate is more centrist than primary voters in both major parties. That seems to be the overall Republican play here.






share|improve this answer















As you described, there appears to be a disconnect in the stated late-term abortion views between the state-level Democrats in Virginia and federal-level Democrats in Washington. Interestingly, however, in reading your question, that's not the primary disconnect in my view.



The bigger and more meaningful division, as I see it, is between the Republicans backing the bill (who are talking about newborn babies) and the Democrats (who are still talking about abortion). The bill does not appear to be about abortion, but about human beings outside the womb.



So, taking into consideration that infanticide is already illegal, this bill may be pure political strategy by pro-life Republicans, who see an opportunity after the highly-publicized, "pro-infanticide" comments of Virginia's governor Ralph Northam and delegate Kathy Tran, to portray Democrats as so extreme on abortion that they even advocate for the destruction of newborn babies. This entire action may be political strategy to gain an edge in the 2020 general elections.



Because this bill does not directly involve abortion, but it is a tangential issue and has the word "abortion" in the title, it's politically difficult for Democrats, who receive major support from abortion advocates, to support it. In fact, for political purposes alone, it's very difficult for Democrats to support any legislation that (even remotely) suggests restrictions on abortion. If they don't oppose restrictions they risk losing campaign funding and sparking a primary challenge.



In terms of the Democratic presidential candidates, supporting this bill would be tantamount to campaign suicide. Any candidate who supports this bill, which would put them in alliance with pro-life Republicans, would be giving their primary opponents, and their media critics, the ability to characterize them as "weak on choice" or "less pro-choice than me". Therefore, all candidates must oppose the bill in order to remain... viable.



Because of the widespread support for abortion rights in the Democratic party, the presidential candidates have no downside risk in opposing this legislation today. But this vote may come back to haunt the nominee in the general election, where the electorate is more centrist than primary voters in both major parties. That seems to be the overall Republican play here.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 1 hour ago

























answered 2 hours ago









Michael_BMichael_B

6,94842026




6,94842026








  • 1





    This is a good explanation of the Republican strategy behind the bill, but aside from the fact that Democrats "receive major support from abortion advocates" I don't see why Democrats would oppose a bill which only deals with abortion as a "tangential" issue. Wouldn't the presidential candidates want to avoid being accused of supporting infanticide (the Republican charge) just as much as they'd want to avoid being characterized as "weak on choice"?

    – Null
    1 hour ago











  • -1 There is no disconnect. This bill criminalizes something that is already illegal, and doesn't conflict with the VA bill in any way. It's a show vote from Republicans to keep the scare-word "abortion" in the news, and that's all it is.

    – Geobits
    1 hour ago








  • 1





    @Null, I refer you to governor Northam. He wasn't attacked by his own side for his abortion views. He was attacked for wearing racist costumes in grad school.

    – Michael_B
    1 hour ago






  • 1





    @Null With a crowded field, the presidential candidates have to survive the primary first before even worrying about what Republicans say or think. By taking hard stances on controversial issues they hope to set themselves apart from the other Democratic candidates, from which one of them will most likely pivot back towards the center after securing the nomination.

    – Jeff Lambert
    1 hour ago






  • 2





    I do see a disconnect, and agree with the OP on that. However, you're right, it may not be "obvious" and is open to interpretation. So I've amended my answer. But I don't think this is just R's catering to their base. This is designed for a more broad-based appeal in my view. Thanks for the feedback. @Geobits

    – Michael_B
    1 hour ago
















  • 1





    This is a good explanation of the Republican strategy behind the bill, but aside from the fact that Democrats "receive major support from abortion advocates" I don't see why Democrats would oppose a bill which only deals with abortion as a "tangential" issue. Wouldn't the presidential candidates want to avoid being accused of supporting infanticide (the Republican charge) just as much as they'd want to avoid being characterized as "weak on choice"?

    – Null
    1 hour ago











  • -1 There is no disconnect. This bill criminalizes something that is already illegal, and doesn't conflict with the VA bill in any way. It's a show vote from Republicans to keep the scare-word "abortion" in the news, and that's all it is.

    – Geobits
    1 hour ago








  • 1





    @Null, I refer you to governor Northam. He wasn't attacked by his own side for his abortion views. He was attacked for wearing racist costumes in grad school.

    – Michael_B
    1 hour ago






  • 1





    @Null With a crowded field, the presidential candidates have to survive the primary first before even worrying about what Republicans say or think. By taking hard stances on controversial issues they hope to set themselves apart from the other Democratic candidates, from which one of them will most likely pivot back towards the center after securing the nomination.

    – Jeff Lambert
    1 hour ago






  • 2





    I do see a disconnect, and agree with the OP on that. However, you're right, it may not be "obvious" and is open to interpretation. So I've amended my answer. But I don't think this is just R's catering to their base. This is designed for a more broad-based appeal in my view. Thanks for the feedback. @Geobits

    – Michael_B
    1 hour ago










1




1





This is a good explanation of the Republican strategy behind the bill, but aside from the fact that Democrats "receive major support from abortion advocates" I don't see why Democrats would oppose a bill which only deals with abortion as a "tangential" issue. Wouldn't the presidential candidates want to avoid being accused of supporting infanticide (the Republican charge) just as much as they'd want to avoid being characterized as "weak on choice"?

– Null
1 hour ago





This is a good explanation of the Republican strategy behind the bill, but aside from the fact that Democrats "receive major support from abortion advocates" I don't see why Democrats would oppose a bill which only deals with abortion as a "tangential" issue. Wouldn't the presidential candidates want to avoid being accused of supporting infanticide (the Republican charge) just as much as they'd want to avoid being characterized as "weak on choice"?

– Null
1 hour ago













-1 There is no disconnect. This bill criminalizes something that is already illegal, and doesn't conflict with the VA bill in any way. It's a show vote from Republicans to keep the scare-word "abortion" in the news, and that's all it is.

– Geobits
1 hour ago







-1 There is no disconnect. This bill criminalizes something that is already illegal, and doesn't conflict with the VA bill in any way. It's a show vote from Republicans to keep the scare-word "abortion" in the news, and that's all it is.

– Geobits
1 hour ago






1




1





@Null, I refer you to governor Northam. He wasn't attacked by his own side for his abortion views. He was attacked for wearing racist costumes in grad school.

– Michael_B
1 hour ago





@Null, I refer you to governor Northam. He wasn't attacked by his own side for his abortion views. He was attacked for wearing racist costumes in grad school.

– Michael_B
1 hour ago




1




1





@Null With a crowded field, the presidential candidates have to survive the primary first before even worrying about what Republicans say or think. By taking hard stances on controversial issues they hope to set themselves apart from the other Democratic candidates, from which one of them will most likely pivot back towards the center after securing the nomination.

– Jeff Lambert
1 hour ago





@Null With a crowded field, the presidential candidates have to survive the primary first before even worrying about what Republicans say or think. By taking hard stances on controversial issues they hope to set themselves apart from the other Democratic candidates, from which one of them will most likely pivot back towards the center after securing the nomination.

– Jeff Lambert
1 hour ago




2




2





I do see a disconnect, and agree with the OP on that. However, you're right, it may not be "obvious" and is open to interpretation. So I've amended my answer. But I don't think this is just R's catering to their base. This is designed for a more broad-based appeal in my view. Thanks for the feedback. @Geobits

– Michael_B
1 hour ago







I do see a disconnect, and agree with the OP on that. However, you're right, it may not be "obvious" and is open to interpretation. So I've amended my answer. But I don't think this is just R's catering to their base. This is designed for a more broad-based appeal in my view. Thanks for the feedback. @Geobits

– Michael_B
1 hour ago




















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